Parliamentary Assembly

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

If my understanding is correct, you were asking me about the preparatory work in the Croatian Parliament on amendments to the media law regulating the status of the national broadcasting service. I understand that that is a matter of the utmost concern to you. In the long-standing process of the European negotiations, we have encountered a number of chapters and benchmarks, the media question being only one of them. We have been tasked with making changes, and the work has been unprecedented in comparison with all previous accession processes.

The media law is not part of the acquis communautaire, so the European law does not have to be directly transposed and is not directly applicable. The Croatian media law has been passed, and the model was established 10 years ago, in 2002. It was remodelled and amended a year and a half ago. Our position is that the institution remains ungovernable. The Croatian national television institution remains one of the pillars – albeit not the most important one – of our identity. Nothing on Croatian television is more important to me than the information and news programmes.

In the political arena, the biggest concern – unfounded and incorrect, in my view – is that the government will influence and tamper with the editorial content of the information programmes. There is long-established competition in the market in that area, so the situation is nothing like that of the late 1990s when the public were being informed through only one channel. Now, there is a plethora of channels and competition is strong. I do not harbour a single ambition to interfere with that.

National television in Croatia is not just daily news; it is drama and cultural programmes as well, and commercial concerns show no interest in those programmes. If we do not establish the correct system to finance and monitor such programmes in the national broadcasting company, those services will evaporate. They will cease to exist. For me, that is the greatest concern.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

The first question relates to the traditional, and expected, health of the new EU member states in the adjacent regions. The second one relates to the altogether different issue of the name dispute over Macedonia. In my meeting with the President of the Parliamentary Assembly in his office a short while ago, I told him that we stand ready to co-operate, to extend our advice and to extend our hand to those countries. We have already traded with Montenegro the whole package of translated European documents – the whole acquis – in languages that are highly mutually intelligible. What serves us, serves Montenegro as well. Beyond that, we stand ready to co-operate and give advice, but not to mentor or hold tutorials. We are not interested in doing that. Given the sheer volume of our economic operation and the reliance of Croatian exports on those markets, my expectation is that the co-operation will be strong and in all our mutual interests.

On Macedonia, frankly, I do not think that the demeanour and attitude displayed towards Macedonia regarding the NATO accession some years was necessarily fair. The country was left on the sidelines, with the dispute unresolved. She was left to her own devices, but the issue will have to be addressed shortly. There again, we are not a neighbouring country of hers and we are not in a position to prescribe solutions. At some point, however, a solution must be reached, otherwise we will flunk the exam. The exam involves bringing Macedonia closer. She has been standing on the sidelines for the last three years following the NATO discussions, and that is not fair.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

Scrutiny of this process is something that we stand ready for – that is what I am here for. You are all national parliamentarians too, and you will be raising your hand or withdrawing your support when Croatia’s European Union accession agreement appears on the agenda of your parliaments.

You asked about the judicial system and the shipyards – again, not a typical or key issue, but one of paramount importance that speaks volumes about the functioning of the state. The judiciary is an ongoing process, in which the finest and most binding complement is trust in the system. You can appoint as many judges as you like, but if trust is not deeply embedded in the system, it will not be considered reliable or attractive for foreign investments. It will not work. The current European financial crisis is first and foremost a crisis of confidence and trust, and only after that a crisis of quality – a lack of ideas and so forth. We are doing our best. We are a liberal, left-leaning government. We know what human rights are. We are extending the area of freedom everyday in Croatia, and it is not always met with applause and cheering – indeed, to the contrary. So, this is a hard and longstanding process.

The ship-building industry is the bedrock of Croatian material culture. We are a country that extends over different climactic, geographical and cultural regions. We are a small nation, but we are very much stretched geographically, with a coastline that stretches over close to 2 000 km. There have been a number of shipyards, traditionally employing local people, allowing them to learn skills and pass them from one generation to another, but now we have reached the terminal point at which some of them will have to terminate their activity and cease to exist, although some will continue, under the very strict terms prescribed and agreed upon in the European accession treaty for Croatia.

My government has inherited, if not a mess, then certainly a conundrum of issues, which have been dragging on for 20 years. We have to bring it to a close and resolve the whole package in little more than six months – our first six months in office. The task is not insurmountable but it is hard. So, one shipyard – by the way, the oldest – has been shut down. I will not be cheered by the voters for that, when most of the shipyards represent our political constituency, but that is something that nobody will ask me for or about. Unfortunately, some shipyards will be closed and some already have been – it is very bad news for us – and the others will have to restructure, a process that is already under way. There is one profitable state-owned shipyard that is not part of the package, but the others will have to merge, or else – you know.

However, we are doing our best to preserve what is the bedrock of Croatian material culture. Rijeka, the northernmost big port in Croatia, was the imperial port of Austria-Hungary, and is the biggest besides Trieste. It is also the place where the first torpedo in the world was produced, at the beginning of the 20th century, and distributed worldwide. It is also where more than three dreadnoughts were built for the Austro-Hungarian fleet, so Rijeka was Austrian but is also Croatian. That is our identity. It is very hard when we have to give up on that, but the rules are very clear and we have to play by them.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

As you mentioned, I have already addressed the first part of your question, at the request of your colleague. Maybe something further could or should be added. It is a long process, at the bedrock of which lies trust and confidence. We are on that path; I am quite confident about that. We will also have one of the longest land borders among all EU states with a non-EU member state. The Croatian-Bosnian border is 1 000 km long, and it will cost money to monitor it. As I said, we are working hard. We have good faith and the best intentions. We have achieved a lot so far. We have been exposed to unprecedented scrutiny – deserved but unprecedented – and the number of areas that the EU and the Commission showed a particular interest in scrutinising far exceeds anything seen so far, so the same or an even higher standard will be applied to all new aspiring states. I hope that satisfies you.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

Let me go back 20 years, which might demonstrate the perspective of my country at that time. We were in the midst of the ravages of the war – we were the object of aggression – but we were not for one moment exposed to the European visa regime. It is a weird fact, but it is a fact. So, in 1992 and 1993, when the war was raging in our country and when, by conventional wisdom, we should have been considered a risk country, Croatian citizens were free to enter the United Kingdom without visas. We were free to enter Italy with just our IDs – without passports. It is a strange but true fact. Visas were introduced briefly in the late 1990s, but they were taken away a few years later. All the other countries were far more scrutinised in that respect, and the regime was harsher for them. Once Croatia is a new member, we will have to play by strict rules. We know what the Schengen regime is and we have signed up to it, so we cannot apply a specific, tailor-made regime.

Concerning Russia and Ukraine, which are countries from which an increasing number of tourists, who are welcome guests, come to Croatia, previous governments have introduced, and we have pursued, if not a bizarre, then an interesting visa policy. Now we are here to act; this is the first year of my administration. We would, in principle, have a visa waiver system for Russians and Ukrainians during the summertime, but then reintroduce visas for them in October, which hardly makes any sense to me. This year the Ukrainians and Russians will be free to enter Croatia without visas during the summertime, as though they were trusted during the summertime, with that trust dwindling in October, when visas are reintroduced. Once we become EU members, we will have to play by the Brussels rules. There is nothing I can do about that, but what I have described has been the practice of my country up to this year. If that clarifies the situation for you, I am content with that, but there is not much we can do, because the rules are quite strict.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

I thank you for the question. Well, you have to work hard. The standards are extremely high, and we have experienced that in one of the longest, if not the longest, negotiation processes in history. We have been talking back and forth for six and a half years – a long period, perhaps a bit over-long – and in the process we learned a lot. We have been exposed to harsh scrutiny and high standards not only in the application of the strict acquis directives and regulations, but far beyond. That is something that lies ahead of you as well, but when the time comes, we will be here to assist you. In the meantime, you have to be patient. Something extraordinarily important should be extrapolated from the process: patience. You need patience but do not be naïve.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

The first question is on the implementation of the constitutional law on the rights of minorities. Actually, 20 years ago, when Croatia was internationally recognised as a sovereign state, that law was one of the fundamental preconditions for the international recognition of Croatia. It has been a long time since then, and we think that it is doing fine and going smoothly, because Croatia is a country of Croatian peoples – of Croats – and the constitution has been written that way. That is also my political platform. I should never lose sight of the fact that we and our ancestors have lived and are still living on soil that has been inhabited by other cultures and peoples, to whom we owe a lot and from whom we have learned a lot, and vice versa. So it is a country of Croatian people, but it is also a country of all ethnicities, religions and faiths that wish to hold other views. They have every right to exercise such diversity and their differences. That is the foundation – the bedrock – of my coalition’s and my party’s policies and programmes for an open and liberal society. I can say that we as a party attract a large proportion of the minority vote in Croatia, but that should not be taken for granted. The representation of the members of the minorities in my government is probably the highest ever, but that did not happen intentionally. It was spontaneous, because the party and the programme beforehand attracted not only Serbs in the first place but others. Such an outlook and policy builds further trust, but it is not an overnight process. It takes time and confidence between Serbs and Croats in Vukovar, which was ravaged by war – destroyed, razed to the ground – to bring them together on the same political platform and regional council. That speaks volumes regionally. For me, these things matter even more than the strict implementation of the constitutional law on the rights of minorities, which in my view is doing just fine, but beyond that there is something: it is the cultural heart of our society. My party in our coalition is not a strictly ethnic party – it is a party of citizens – and our platform includes Croats, Serbs and the others, and it works in practice.

On energy security, Rijeka is a very deepwater port. You know that the Chinese have to go to the Yangshan islands just 30 miles off the Yangtze estuary, to find a spot where the depth of the water exceeds 20 metres. So Rijeka port, with the Brsica refinery, is predestined to serve as a container port and as an energy port. The liquefied natural gas terminal is perhaps my government’s most important strategic project. The area for co-operation is open. So somebody may see it as strategic in relation to the position of Russia and the East, but we see it as being strategic for Croatia. That project must go rolling on, and so must the railway from Rijeka to Vienna and Budapest. In bringing those projects to maturity, we rely on European capital and money. Whoever makes an offer on good terms is welcome for business. For us, it is a business issue.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

If there is one neighbouring country with which Croatia does not have a single open issue, it is certainly Hungary. Over the past 20 years, relations between Croatia and Hungary can be described as impeccable – perfect. Border issues are non-existent. Minority issues are non-existent. I can confirm your statement that the Hungarian minority mostly live in the least-developed and most war-affected region of Croatia. However, I must stress at this point that the Hungarian minority has the right to direct representation in the Croatian Parliament, which is a standard not necessarily exercised elsewhere in every single country. So we have intrinsically good standards. Many minorities have direct representation on lower census and turnout figures. They get direct representation in the Croatian Parliament. For the Social Democratic or Conservative representative to get elected to the parliament and exercise the full rights of a parliamentarian it takes 20 000 votes on average, whereas some minorities can make it into the parliament with 300 votes. That certainly makes a difference, and it shows Croatia’s standards. I am not pressing any country to implement that, but we have it. I will not be tampering with Serbia and its territorial arrangements, the status of minorities and the territorial autonomy of any minority in Serbia. They have the autonomous province of Vojvodina, which regained part of its autonomy compared with its status in the 1970s and `80s, when its autonomy was abolished by Slobodan Milošević. Vojvodina has traditionally been home to Serbs, Hungarians, Germans and Croats among others. It is a multinational, multilingual and multicultural region. It is a central European melting pot. Well, in fact, it is not a melting pot because everyone retained their identities, which have flourished together but separately. Serbia is just about to form its government. The Government of Serbia makes a difference because the role of the president is honorary but not quite concrete in terms of internal and foreign policy. Once we see who rolls the dice in Belgrade, we can talk.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

Our political programme stipulates that we will further extend freedom and equality for LGBT couples. We might not necessarily grant them the status that they enjoy in some Nordic and other European countries, but we will certainly go beyond the current standard. That has been our pledge, and that pledge will be fulfilled.

When I make my statements, I always bear in mind the future, the past and tradition. The tradition of a society, be it Christian, Islamic, Catholic or whatever, is not necessarily the best reference. Traditionally, husbands were allowed to beat up women. That was part of the tradition, not just in my country, but elsewhere. That was a very bad tradition. Things change. It takes time, but we will change the law and implement new standards, and we will talk and talk and talk. That is what the rule of law is all about. It is not just button pressing; it is about permanent conversation to do with the spirit of the law, what the law really means and what it stands for. It is about the element of trust and confidence. It is a lengthy and complicated process, but we think we are on the right and just path.

Only yesterday, two lesbian girls were beaten up in downtown Zagreb on board a tram for exposing their sexual affinity in a very mild and benign fashion. They were approached by a thug and he punched one of them. Such a thing has not happened in Zagreb for a very long time, and Gay Pride attracts very little attention. In Rijeka, there is no march at all, because there is no interest. It is fully open and liberal.

As you might know, in Split, another Croatian city that is very close to my heart, identity and ancestry, the situation is slightly different. If we strike too harshly against opponents who are not getting our message, we might just be paying lip service to the cause. We must do things slowly, permanently and diligently, step by step. Then things will change. Things are already much better in Split this year than last year. Last year, there was a police incident and a mob attacked the march. It did not bode well for my country politically, but things are changing.

Croatia is a country of diversity – a country of the Mediterranean, central Europe and the north, culturally and even in human appearance. It is a small nation, but very diverse.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

I do not think that the two cases should necessarily be compared. We had a border dispute with Slovenia, not an identity dispute. Identity-wise, the lines were drawn long in the past. It was about the border and maritime delimitation. Eventually, after 20 long years, we have resorted to the solution that should have used in the first instance. We have wasted 20 years. What we – thank God – did in 2011 should by all accounts have been done in 1991, but it was not, because there was a lot of nervousness, despite the ambition to resolve the issue. The issue was used in internal political squabbles on both sides, and it served as a mighty tool for political manipulators year after year. Now it is before the Arbitration Commission, which has a very strict role in setting maritime delimitation. Getting it to the commission was not easy in itself, because we had to agree a set of rules by which the arbitration should operate. However, if you are really committed, it can work – and it has worked, even beyond my expectations, which were quite conservative.

We do have open issues with some other neighbouring countries. I do not completely rule out the possibility that we will resort to arbitration with Serbia, for instance. We will not press or push Serbia on the border issue while it is on its path towards EU membership. That is not a carrot that we wish to hold in our hand. We intend to be fair, because it is a very complex issue. It is not “take it or leave it”. We do not want to abuse our position as an EU member – if you abuse it, it is not nice.

The issue between Macedonia and Greece is an identity and name issue. It is quite weird to me. I really do not have the right advice for you. I have just said what I meant and meant what I said – it has been naturally unfair to Macedonia for the whole international community to leave the country on the sideline for two and a half years due to its own indecision. I am aware of the ruling of the International Court of Justice, but it cannot be forced upon Greece, so you will have to talk further. I know that my answer is highly irritating to you, but that is reality.

Mr Milanović, Prime Minister of Croatia

I do not necessarily share your views. Ever since the trials commenced in Croatia, I have refrained from any comments, because the matter is sub judice. I have been a very strong critic of the previous government and ruling party, but I have been silent during the trials, because I want the matter to be peacefully resolved.

I avoided the phrase “fighting against corruption” for the most part during the campaign and the drafting of our programme, because it is about more than that – the prevention of corruption. I believe that that was the phrase I used in my speech. When the point comes at which you have to fight corruption, that implies that its influence and presence in society are overwhelming. That is a very bad fate.

You prevent corruption through practice, through legislation and through anything else you can. By setting examples personally and through the whole system, we can ensure that corruption simply does not appear. Once it is embedded into the system, it is too late to resolve it quickly. It takes years. Croatia was not necessarily infested with corruption, but in some circles it was a way of life. Now, it will stop.