Parliamentary Assembly

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

Let me start by answering the second question, as I touched on that issue in my speech. I share the Assembly’s view that the memorandum of understanding should reflect as many of the recommendations set out in the report as possible, and we will continue actively to support that position. At the same time, we need to achieve consensus at the Committee of Ministers, which is, as you know, often a difficult task with 46 member states.

Furthermore, one must also take into account the views of the European Commission and the European Council. It is regrettable that progress in drafting the memorandum has stalled, not least because accession to the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms is vital for the European Union. The Council of Europe must not only maintain but strengthen its foothold in the institutional framework of Europe in the 21st century.

An effective relationship between the Council of Europe and the European Union is, as has been said, crucial to the successful completion of the European Union structure. The possibilities and prospects for closer complementary relations between the Union and the Council are vast, and Prime Minister Juncker’s report contains extremely useful proposals. We remain optimistic that the result of our efforts will be positive both for the Council and the Union.

On the first question, we are all well aware of the situation that emerged after the two negative referendum results on the constitutional treaty. We strongly believe that the time has come to renew our efforts. We understand that the reflection period was necessary, and we are willing to be as constructive as we can in Chancellor Angela Merkel’s efforts to renew the attempt to find a solution. We respect all the different views – that goes without saying – but a Union of 27 cannot operate or envisage its future using the rules of a Europe of six. It is urgent that we move forward.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

I will not go back into the history of this matter as I am sure that you all know it. The referendums were held almost three years ago now, and we have to renew our efforts. We are committed, as indeed is the Government of Cyprus, to finding a way to move towards a viable solution to this problem. Under the auspices of the United Nations, and with the constructive engagement of the European Union, which will be necessary as one of the parameters concerns the respect of European values and standards, we will eventually reach that point.

As I said in my speech, the accession of Cyprus to the European Union and Turkey’s European perspective should be seen as helpful to that process.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

As you know, we are a big family. We share basic goals, but that does not mean that everybody is in line on every issue. There are different views about the future of Europe. We believe that the process towards political integration is favourable and we support it. There are other views as well. We understand that Europe, by definition, has a milieu of consensus and compromise. Some fifty years after its inception, Europe has been a success story. We should do our utmost to make it a success story in the years to come.

You mentioned majority voting. We must be careful to respect sensitivities when we consider movements in that direction. Essentially, a Europe with 27 members cannot operate under the rules of its initial members. This complicated issue must be considered with great care. However, we all understand that a family of 27 – the number might be higher in the years to come – cannot operate only by full consensus.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

The question of the missing persons remains of primary importance for the living relatives and the Governments of Cyprus and Greece. We firmly believe that the circumstances in which the missing persons disappeared must be fully disclosed. As you are probably aware, a committee on the missing persons is operating under the auspices of the United Nations. However, despite the Turkish side’s commitment to take concrete steps towards a resolution, including under the framework of the UN committee, there have been no tangible results so far. We sincerely hope that Turkey will display the necessary will to engage constructively in a resolution of the problem.

I said in my speech that the ongoing division of Cyprus and the presence of military forces was politically, morally and logically unacceptable in the 21st century. We are trying to do our best to find a just and viable solution and we will also try to find a way to keep the process moving. We think that engaging Turkey in the European cause will prove to be constructive, although there are wildly different views about that in Europe. However, Turkey’s reform and external behaviour will be positively influenced as it gradually adopts European standards of behaviour and develops a European perspective. Of course, our policy is not unconditional. I can summarise it in a brief statement: full compliance, full accession.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

The basic goal must be to promote and guarantee the stability of the region, which historically has been characterised by friction and conflict – even, unfortunately, in its most recent past. We must respect the realities, yet determine how we can bring about stability and peace in the region.

We support Martti Ahtisaari’s proposals, which are of great interest. Any solution should be acceptable to all sides and the product of a negotiation. We do not believe that an imposed solution could be workable. Any consideration of the situation must be combined with a European perspective on the region. The status of Kosovo and the situation there must be part of a European edifice. At the same time, we strongly believe that Serbia must be offered a clear European perspective.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

You tempt me to give a one-word answer: yes. However, let me offer a few comments.

As Greece lies in South-Eastern Europe, at the border of the Union, it is faced with the daunting challenge of addressing strong migratory flows. It is thus natural that my government attaches great importance to making migration issues a high priority. We participate in all relevant forums, and our extensive expertise in the field suggests that there is ample margin to improve co-operation among national and international migration policies throughout Europe. Migration is linked to one of the highest priorities in the Council of Europe: the promotion of social cohesion. We are convinced that this Organisation, as the only truly pan-European body on the continent, has an important role to play in this context. That is why, together with the Parliamentary Assembly, we continue to support the idea of setting up a European migration observatory agency under the auspices of the Council of Europe. Such a body would co-operate directly with the European Union. Last but not least, Greece has offered – we insist on this – to host the agency. We are aware of the Council of Europe’s budgetary constraints, but we believe that migration issues, especially this project, merit further consideration and discussion.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

I should point out that the so-called isolation of the Turkish Cypriot community is the outcome of Turkey’s invasion and occupation of northern Cyprus. When Cyprus became a member of the EU in 2004, the issue arose in terms of the application of the acquis in the occupied areas. In April 2004, it was decided to adopt measures to help the Turkish Cypriot community facilitate the reunification of Cyprus by encouraging economic development. To this end, the EU put in force two regulations: the green line regulation, which provided for trade arrangements between the occupied and free areas of the island; and the financial regulation, which set a framework for channelling EU funds to the Turkish Cypriot community for its development and structural projects. In addition, the draft trade regulation is under discussion and the presidency is holding a consultation with the Cypriot Government and the Turkish Cypriot community.

We understand that these are complex and thorny issues concerning the occupied territory of a member state of the EU. The three regulations are a step in the right direction, provided that our common objective remains the reunification of Cyprus and they are complementary to the overall political solution sought in the UN framework.

It is also crucial to point out that the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus must be safeguarded. As regards the so-called isolation of the Turkish Cypriot community, I remind the Assembly that the United Nations, under Resolutions 541 and 550, has called on all states not to recognise the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and not to facilitate or in any way assist the aforementioned secessionist entity.

Greece supports the economic development of the Turkish Cypriot community and it is expedient for me to stress that per capita income in the occupied areas has tripled over the last couple of years following the implementation of the EU financial regulation involving almost €260 million. The green line regulation has also helped the Turkish Cypriot community.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

Let me stress that Greece is a democracy and operates under the rule of law. All citizens, regardless of their religious affiliation or belief, are treated equally by the state and their rights are fully respected.

On the specific issue, in 1998 the Greek Government abolished Article 19 of the Greek nationality code. That article referred to all those persons of non-Greek origin who abandoned Greek territory with no intention to return. Many of those did so of their own free will and renounced Greek nationality. The article applied to all persons with Greek nationality, not only those belonging to the Muslim minority. The number of stateless Muslims remaining in Thrace is about 20. They have been given special identity cards in accordance with the UN convention relating to stateless persons and they are in the process of acquiring Greek citizenship.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

Do not forget that I am also a parliamentarian. I know what it feels like to enjoy the ability to express one’s personal view; on the other hand, I know what it is like to have to fulfil the duties necessary to gain a majority within one’s party to make a decision. Which is more important in pushing forward the implementation of government policy?

This is an important challenge in terms of party-based democracy and with sincere good will and dialogue we can achieve the ends we seek. This is about cohesive parties adopting collective decisions. All democratic institutions safeguard the personal freedom of parliamentarians and party-based decision making. Bridging that gap is our responsibility. Our duty is to respect the other’s viewpoint.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

If I understand the question correctly, in the 1980s the Supreme Court was asked to proceed with the dissolution of an association called the Turkish Union. First, it referred to Turkey, with the clear implication of the existence of a Turkish minority in Greece, contrary to the provision of the Treaty of Lausanne, which provided for a Muslim minority. Also, Article 8 of its statute mentioned, among other things, that the objective of the organisation was to spread cultural, social and religious reforms as established by the Turkish revolution, which would mean the promotion of the political objectives of another country. The Supreme Court pronounced itself in favour of dissolving that association.

Greece is a democratic society with full respect for all human and minority rights. At the same time, Greece abides by the rule of law and honours and respects international law and its international commitments, including the Treaty of Lausanne.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

It seems a little strange to answer in English a question asked in Greek. We have a broad, bipartisan approach in Greece that involves the two major parties. On Turkey and Europe, we believe that Turkey has not fulfilled the obligations and commitments that it made in its contract with Europe. We believe that last December’s decision by the European Council was positive, because it sent Turkey a clear-cut message that the European Union is not satisfied by the progress achieved in the promotion of reforms and in the implementation of the requirements agreed by Turkey in its contract with Europe.

On the other hand, we believe that Turkey must be engaged in the European process. As I have said, our policy is encapsulated in this phrase: full compliance, full accession. We believe in a policy that offers Turkey the incentive to develop, to reform and gradually to become European not only in name, but in the way in which it operates its political system and in the way in which it behaves throughout the world and towards its neighbours.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

I think that I made my policy and approach plain in my initial statement. I will not get into history, because everyone has their own views. I myself am a Macedonian, and another 2.5 million Greeks are Macedonians, so the question cannot be considered unilaterally. None the less, we are bound by certain specific commitments, one of which is the interim accord of ten years or so ago. Another commitment is the conditions under which the European Union has constructed the European process for “the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”, which, among other things, entails good neighbourly relations. Since the negotiation process started under the auspices of the United Nations, both sides are committed to achieving a mutually acceptable solution on the remaining question of the name.

Greece, and in particular me and my government, has taken a major step forward in finding the common ground for a mutually acceptable solution. I say firmly and openly that we expect “the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” side to respond to that policy, but, unfortunately, we have not seen that. Indeed, we have seen acts that are not helpful in creating a constructive climate in which to reach a solution. We are dealing with an issue which is one aspect of our bilateral relationship. I have no trouble in stating that we have strong co-operation on many issues. Greece is the No. 1 trade partner and investor in “the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”. We strongly support the integrity of that country, and we have strong co-operation in the tourist domain.

We support “the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia’s” Euro-Atlantic aspirations and, in particular, the European perspective, but that comes with the condition that we find a mutually acceptable solution. That is a moderate and sane policy that is in accordance with international law, international treaties and the common understanding among all of us who want to see such problems resolved peacefully.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

I believe very strongly that the solution we are all inclined to seek will eventually resolve the remaining problem on the continent – the Cyprus problem – in full accordance with UN Security Council resolutions but also with European values and standards. In that sense, it is of course out of the question that a European country will have on its soil the military presence of another country – at least permanently.

Mr Karamanlis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic

I fully believe that. The only effective policy – not only my government’s policy but that of governments throughout Europe in all societies that share similar values about democracy, human rights and the rule of law – must be based on a combination of having the political will and resolution to fight uncompromisingly against terrorism while at the same time fully respecting all the priorities and principles of a democratic and open society and human rights. If we make the mistake of bending the rules of law a little or letting them subside, we may in essence be playing the game of the terrorists.