THE PRESIDENT
Thank you,
Chancellor Kohl. A record number of colleagues – thirty-five of
them from twenty-four countries – want to ask you spontaneous questions
if there is time. I have tried to group them according to subject
matter – always a dangerous exercise – and I must stress that no
one will have a chance to ask another question. What is more, I
have put in an automatic system that will cut off the microphones
after thirty seconds. If members can ask their questions in twenty
seconds, so much the better – others will have more of a chance
to ask theirs.
Perhaps I may presume to ask Chancellor Kohl, too, to be as
concise as possible.
The first set of questions dealing with the future of the
Council of Europe will be asked by the following colleagues: Mrs Gelderblom-Lankhout,
Mr Seitlinger, Mr Severin, Mr Columberg, Mr Rodrigues, Sir Russell Johnston,
and Mr Latronico. I call Mrs Gelderblom-Lankout.
Mrs GELDERBLOM-LANKOUT (Netherlands) (translation)
Mr President,
I hope that simultaneous translation is being provided as I like
to be able to speak my own language in the Assembly. What a pleasure
it is to hear someone speaking enthusiastically about Europe again,
and offering us prospects for the future. Chancellor, you have gladdened
our hearts. My question will be brief: How do you envisage co-operation
between the European Parliament and the Council of Europe?
Mr SEITLINGER (France) (translation)
Mr Chancellor,
my question concerns our relations with the Russian Federation. Two
days ago we decided to end the provisional freeze on the procedure
concerning the Russian Federation’s application for membership and
to resume the accession process. You have, of course, already commented very
clearly on this matter, and your opinion is well known to us. Personally,
I share it. However, I should like to know whether you consider
that it is in the interests of Russia and of Europe as a whole for
this major country to become a member of our Organisation in the
near future. Do you think that that would be an important, indeed
decisive contribution to stability and peace in Europe?
Mr SEVERIN (Romania)
As you know,
Chancellor Kohl, in Romania we have a German minority which wants
to remain in Romania but which is afraid that a new German Ostpolitik
will reiterate the old Bismarck approach, which opened the door
to the autocratic Russian tsars in the middle of Europe. What is
your message for those Germans who, like their Romanian fellows,
do not want to remain behind a new iron curtain, and who understand
the enlargement of Europe to mean the extension of western democratic
civilisation to the Orient, not the opposite?
Mr COLUMBERG (Switzerland) (translation)
Chancellor,
thank you for your tremendous statement in support of Europe and
the strengthening of the Council of Europe. You have successfully
supported the expansion of the Council and the construction of a
new Europe. These new tasks require an additional effort on the
part of the Council of Europe.
Mr RODRIGUES (Portugal) (translation)
Mr Chancellor,
the official request by the United States to become a special observer
at the Council of Europe has sparked off a polemic not only in Europe
but throughout the American continent. A major Brazilian newspaper
has published the results of a survey carried out in Washington,
which found that the United States would oppose a request by Germany
and France to be admitted to the Organization of American States
as observers.
What is your view, Mr Chancellor, of the request by the United
States? Do you envisage seeking observer status for your country
with the OAS? Will the trans-Atlantic bridge be the prologue to
a protectorate?
Sir Russell JOHNSTON (United Kingdom)
May I
say, Mr President, as a British Liberal, that many of all nationalities
in the European Union regard the Chancellor as the last real European
and admire him greatly for it? We hope he will never give up.
As you, Mr President, and the Chancellor both know, this Assembly
is called on to do more and more in central and eastern Europe while
being held on a lower budget. Heads of government come in procession
to praise us while simultaneously denying us the resources to fulfil
our responsibilities. What is the attitude of the German Government
to the financing of the Council of Europe?
Mr LATRONICO (Italy) (translation)
Chancellor, I enormously
appreciated what you said about the future of Europe and about Italy.
You expressed the hope that German might become an official language
in the near future. Do you not think that, in the near future, Italian,
like German, might become an official language of the Council of Europe,
given that our native tongues are symbols of a great historical
and cultural reality in Europe and throughout the world?
Mr Kohl, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany (translation)
I shall answer the last question
first. It is natural that you should support the use of Italian.
If we go back to origins we shall have to go back to the time of
the Vatican and declare Latin to be the language of Europe. This
would have a very adverse effect on our speaking times. I understand
your position and you, I think, understand mine.
There are striking differences between the Council of Europe
and the European Parliament, with each institution having its own
task. I am one of those who do not believe the Council of Europe
has come to the end of its development. I am of the opinion – and
in pointing this out I am saying something you think and feel too –
that those European countries that have a distinctly European identity
and cannot or will not be able to become members of the European
Union have a mouthpiece here, that we find Europe’s cultural dimension here,
and that a great deal is being done here.
Let me give you an example that, strangely enough, is constantly
underestimated, something that even I, as the chairman of a large
German party am not guilty of: in this Parliamentary Assembly there
are delegates who have seats in their national parliaments at the
same time. It is, of course, very much easier to integrate national parliaments
and this Assembly than it is to integrate national parliaments and
the European Parliament. We can say it openly: there is an alienation
process between the national parliaments in all countries and the members
of the European Parliament, which also meets in this Chamber. We
also see this happening in the national parties.
I think it is an extremely important fact that the men and
women who perform their functions in their national parliaments
at least gain direct experience of Europe a few times a year whilst
they are members of parliament and that personal friendships are
formed in this Assembly, not only between groups with different
party political origins but also between groups from different countries.
I mentioned just now the example of the cathedrals from Ireland
to Kyev and Moscow. There is a big difference whether a parliamentary
delegation visits another parliament – when people eat and drink
well and a great deal of talking takes place, which is usually as
far as it goes – and whether large numbers of them sit with their colleagues
for years or decades, not only during but also outside their actual
working hours, and get to know problems and pass this information
on to others. I consider this to be one of the most important aspects
of the process of European unity. This is one aspect of the Council
of Europe’s work that cannot be valued too highly.
There are considerable differences between the tasks of the
Council of Europe and those of the European Parliament. I do not
see any reason why we should have a pessimistic view of the future.
Let me make it clear that I see no problems here. If we define
our tasks properly — both the President and I have mentioned the
number of new member states – this will naturally lead to more investment.
The Germans have never held back when it comes to investing in Europe.
I do not want to bore you with figures on the amounts involved,
although I would have no difficulty stating them in public. However,
as I have been asked this question I shall reply that we can find
the money and I personally welcome our doing so.
Now to our relations with Russia. Ladies and gentlemen, one
of the central issues facing Europe has been mentioned here. Whether
individuals among you like it or not, whether they vote in favour
of Russia becoming a full member of this House or not, reality will
catch up with them as soon as they look at the map. We must ensure
that now, in the year 1995, there is not a general feeling, which
can sometimes be discerned in the West, including the other side
of the Atlantic, that the third world war has, thank God, not taken
place, but the Russians have lost it anyway.
The Russians are a great, cultivated people. Russia is a country
with a great history and great traditions.
Many of those who bear political responsibility there today
witnessed a series of state funerals just a few years ago – just
think back ten years – when the Soviet Union was still in existence.
How many westerners who are now making completely different statements
went to the Kremlin in those days and kowtowed to the mighty?
Because the situation is as it is I advise us to take an overall
view of Russia. We shall not be able to have a durable peace and
freedom in Europe if the most powerful people in the East do not
find their way to reforms, democracy, the rule of law and everything
associated with it. Since the October Revolution Russia has gone through
difficult times.
I should like to make it quite clear that there are two schools
of thought in the West – in Germany, too, incidentally. Some people
sit down and say it cannot work, that Yeltsin – or whoever it may
be, will never succeed, that things will turn out badly. These are
the really clever people – or at least they think so. Then there is
the other school of thought, to which I, and many others, belong.
I say I do not know if things will turn out well. I only know one
thing: if we do nothing, if we do not help Russia to help herself,
if we do not hold out our hand and say “Welcome”, then things certainly
will turn out badly.
I mentioned my age just now. In the years 1946 to 1948, when
we were going to grammar school, we asked our parents: how was it
possible for the nazis to get into power in 1933? Didn’t you realise
what was going on? Why didn’t you do anything about it? At that
age young people are quick to criticise.
I should not like to see the present younger generation ask
those with political responsibility in Europe at the moment — this
means you, too, with the decisions you take: didn’t you see that
you had to take a big step forward and perhaps agree to carry out
an experiment? They would tell us now: you have everything to gain. If
you write this big country off right from the beginning, with all
the consequences this would have for Ukraine and other countries
– I just want to make this brief point, given the limited time available
– then we will have lost the battle. Please consider this and take
your decisions in this spirit.
I did not quite understand the question concerning the German
minority in Romania. Otto von Bismarck has been dead for some time
and does not have a successor. The German minority is happy to stay
in Romania. However, it had to live for many years under one of
the most criminal regimes there has ever been in Europe. I never
enjoyed having to negotiate with Mr and Mrs Ceausescu in the manner
of the slave trade. We paid between 15 000 and 20 000 Deutschmarks
to secure a German’s freedom, and it did not give us any pleasure.
My wish is that your decisions concerning minority rights
should apply all over Europe and that people of German extraction,
some of whom have been living there since the time of Maria Theresia,
or even longer, should remain where they have their homes, where
they have buried their dead and where the gravestones testify to
their history. In a different Europe the important issue should
not be national frontiers but the possibility of living with one
another in freedom.
Now the subject of the United States. I have already indicated
that I see no problems here. I cannot discern any signs of our becoming
a United States protectorate. Ladies and gentlemen, I see this quite
differently: the Europeans, after many trials and tribulations,
are now in the process of reflecting upon themselves and their own
strength. Those who speak about the Americans should be honest enough
to admit – and I say this as a German – that the nazi period would
not have been brought to an end without them. This is the truth.
But I cannot call in the Americans whenever some trouble is
happening in the world and say: you are the world power, put things
right. If they succeed no one says thank you, but if they do not
– and they are statistically likely to fail a certain percentage
of the time – many people say the Americans are totally incompetent. ,
I consider this way of looking at things rather absurd. As
a European German and a German European, as Thomas Mann said – and
I very much like his way of putting it -I have enough self-confidence.
We have just as much grey matter as the Japanese and the Americans,
and if we now learn to use it, both individuals and Europe as a
whole, we do not need to have any complexes.
On the contrary, I keep saying to my American friends and
others I talk to that if you want to make a mistake on the threshold
of the twenty-first century then just put your glasses on in such
a way that you can only see the Pacific. The Pacific is important,
but it is only one of the oceans. The Atlantic is an ocean too.
We are sitting on this side of the Atlantic. We have not yet
reached our limits, even though it looks like it on some days. However,
there can be no question of our not having the strength if we join
forces.
I wish there were a bridge between Europe and the other side
of the Atlantic on which there is not only military traffic like
at the time of the cold war. I wish a lot more young Americans and
young Europeans would work and study over here and over there and
get to know each other’s country and people. I want Europeans to
invest in the USA and the Americans to invest in Germany. I want
a broad cultural exchange, from language learning through religion
and the cultural aspects of a country to scientific activities.
I mentioned Harvard just now. If you read about the history
of this great American university you will find traces of Oxford,
the Sorbonne and Heidelberg. That is part of our common history.
I can therefore only advise you to help ensure that the Americans
feel at home in this House too.
I believe it would be good for the American Senate and the
House of Representatives if younger politicians were to sit in the
Strasbourg Parliament and get to know the complicated nature of
European politics before they assume functions over there. If we
isolate ourselves no discussions will take place. I said in a different context
just now that things will only turn out well if we talk to one another
and not about one another.
As far as I can tell I have now answered all the questions.
Mr President, to put your colleagues at ease I should just
like to say that if the tasks ahead are defined in the way we are
discussing them here the financing of this Organisation will not
turn out to be an impossible undertaking.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you,
Chancellor Kohl. We come to the second set of questions from Mr Grzyb, Mr Motiu,
Mr Saudargas, Mr Benvenuti, Mr Bianchi and Mrs Ragnarsöttir. I call
Mr Grzyb.
Mr GRZYB (Poland) (translation)
Chancellor, thank
you very much for your very interesting speech.
Poland and other central and eastern European states that
have association agreements with the European Union are convinced
that representatives of all these countries must be present at the
intergovernmental conference in Essen in 1996, so that we can participate
in the decisions on the enlargement of and changes to the internal
structure of the European Union.
Chancellor, what is your opinion on this?
Mr MOTIU (Romania)
We greatly appreciate
your presence here and I should like to ask you two questions. Firstly,
are you in favour of reshaping central and eastern Europe, and in
what respect? Secondly, could you give us some details of your 1991
agreement with Mr Gorbachev, especially regarding Europe’s near neighbours
in the former Soviet Union?
Mr SAUDARGAS (Lithuania)
Chancellor,
Germany has constantly supported Lithuania and the other Baltic states
in their attempts to align themselves with other central European
states. Do you see any argument for introducing specific political
preconditions in the process of our accession to the European Union
that divide us from the other central European states?
Mr BENVENUTI (Italy) (translation)
You referred Chancellor,
to the development of a European security system and the extension
of Nato eastwards. In this context and in view of the fact that
Nato is a defence agreement, do you think that the aims and mechanisms
of NATO ought to be redefined, when the European security system
is worked out?
Mr BIANCHI (Italy) (translation)
Chancellor, as
a leader of courage, wisdom and patience, talents which are essential
for the achievement of European goals (and I do not just mean the
economic and political stages leading to the European Union, but
also the immediate aims of this Assembly), do you not think that
the process of European integration needs more concerted action,
with all the members ranking equally, so as to prevent an outside state
from being able to call into question the credibility of some of
the partners?
Mrs RAGNARSDOTTIR (Iceland)
The many challenges
and contradictions that face the European Union raise questions
about their solution. Is it possible to seek a solution to such
problems as monetary union, the budget, the role of WEU and institutional
reform, and at the same time press on with the enlargement of the Union?
Do you not think that an order of priority is needed and how would
you foresee such a prioritisation?
THE PRESIDENT
I call Chancellor
Kohl to reply to these questions.
Mr Kohl, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany (translation)
Mr President, I am unfortunately
only the Federal Chancellor and not a stenographer. The interpreters
are working so fast that I can hardly keep up. Please forgive me
if I have not quite understood a question.
First of all, our colleague from Poland: I do not believe
it will be possible to give the participants at last December’s
conference in Essen, to which I issued the invitations, full rights
of participation when we come to drawing up the intergovernmental
conference documents. However, I do see a possibility, and one that
also makes sense – we discussed this, incidentally, last weekend
in Mallorca during the negotiations on the intergovernmental conference
– I prefer to say the Maastricht II Treaty, as this is a term that
can be better understood – we should conduct a very intensive exchange
of views and information. I think that is what you need.
If I have correctly understood the question concerning the
talks I had and the agreements I reached with Mikhail Gorbachev
in 1990 it is based on a common error: when we were discussing German
unification in summer 1990 we were still referring to the Soviet
Union. No one expected that a few months later the Soviet Union would
no longer exist. Mikhail Gorbachev certainly did not, nor did I.
No one mentioned that the problem posed today by Nato’s expansion
to neighbouring countries might arise.
There were therefore no agreements in this respect. We only
spoke about the fact that after German reunification no conditions
would be imposed on German soldiers who are part of Nato being stationed
on the territory of the former German Democratic Republic – that
is there was to be no cordon sanitaire.
I am quite certain that there is a way of reaching agreement,
with a clear definition of the possibilities available, with Russia,
Ukraine and other states, for example in connection with Nato’s
expansion to take in Poland – which Moscow sees as the most serious
problem. Russia cannot, of course, become a member of Nato but it can
certainly conclude agreements with it that serve to establish sensible
relations and prevent any feeling arising that Russia is under threat
or in any danger. However, I admit that the time is not right for
such talks. The elections to the Russian Parliament will be held
in a few weeks and the presidential elections will be taking place
next summer. The primaries are in full swing in America. I do not
believe that election periods are a good time to discuss such questions.
Moreover, we have no reason at all to put ourselves under unnecessary pressure.
I am quite certain that in fifteen months’ time we shall be able
to talk to one another much more calmly on this question.
This also applies, incidentally, to the next question, the
development of the Baltic states. As far as they are concerned,
all Europeans, especially we Germans, have a particular historical
responsibility to bear. It was Hitler who betrayed the Baltic states
by giving them to Stalin. For this reason, history has imposed on
us a particular responsibility to see that these peoples’ civil
rights and liberties and other rights are respected and to seek
ways and means of bringing this about.
Now to the question of how the European security system and
Nato can be linked together. Well, ladies and gentlemen, the Nato
of 1995 no longer has the same function to perform as the Nato of
1985. As you know, I became Chancellor on 1 October 1982. In the
years that followed the main subject of German domestic policy was
the deployment of medium-range missiles, and this was accompanied
by a heated discussion. Today, we have almost forgotten that we
argued in Nato in summer 1988, seven years ago – yes, you heard
right – about the deployment of more short-range missiles, the type
that were to be deployed in western Germany and would have landed
in eastern Germany. Many of you in this Chamber will still be able
to remember that I flatly refused to allow such missiles to be deployed
in Germany. Today, the vast majority of them have long been turned
into scrap.
It is, therefore, very important that Nato should define its
objectives anew – we need Nato in the future too. Part of this definition
is our relationship with Russia, which I have just spoken about.
As far as the intergovernmental conference timetable for economic
and monetary union and enlargement is concerned, we should be sensible,
ladies and gentlemen. It is rather absurd to believe that all this
can be done at the same time. You said a lot of nice things about
me earlier on. Sometimes it sounded as though I have already passed
on to the other side and have become a monument. However, I am still
very much alive and present here today, and I am driven by one great
objective that, for me, is very important. I was twenty years old
and a sixth-former when I heard Konrad Adenauer say a sentence that
I have remembered and which, in addition to others, has become a
maxim for my political efforts. At that time he told us young people
that German unity and European integration are two sides of the
same coin. If the Germans are content just to have German unity
they will fail to do their historical duty. We all need Europe,
but we Germans need it more. That is why I say, to my own country
too, that whoever derives the greatest benefit must pay the most.
I still consider this to be justified. However, don’t misunderstand
me: this does not mean that others who benefit should not pay very
much.
We have a clear agreement that the intergovernmental conference
will begin in 1996 and must be finished by 1997. There is no way
that we can put off dealing with the issues involved. Just to make
it absolutely clear: we have no option but to succeed.
In the second half of 1997, when Luxembourg holds the presidency,
we must begin to take the decisions on economic and monetary union,
the form of which has already been agreed. This will involve a large
number of difficult discussions.
We have said that six months after the end of the intergovernmental
conference, that is at the end of 1997, we will open negotiations
on membership, for example with Malta. I also said in my speech
before the Polish Parliament that I believe negotiations will get
under way if and when individual countries have created the relevant
structures. This will be towards the turn of the century. Although
I cannot give you a firm date I can say one thing: we cannot group
countries together. What we did with Austria, Sweden and Finland,
namely “packaging” them together, cannot be repeated. When it comes
to enlarging the European Union by taking in countries from central,
eastern and south-eastern Europe, those countries must be considered
individually, and separate decisions must be taken.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you,
Chancellor. We come to the third grouping of questions. We shall
hear from Mr Figel, Mr Elo, Mr Gross, Mr Korkeaoja, Mrs Veidemann,
Mr Kiliç, Mr Bârsony, Mr Bartodziej and Mrs Guirado. Mr Figel from
Slovakia has the first question.
Mr FIGEL (Slovakia)
During the cold
war many political emigrants from Slovakia and other countries fleeing from
the eastern side of the iron curtain found asylum and their new
homeland in the Federal Republic of West Germany. Our anti-regime
dissident movements in the past as well as democrats today could
and can rely on Germany’s principal foreign, and especially human
rights, policy. People in Slovakia are grateful for that. What is
your message for those in eastern Europe who are sceptical about
Germany’s commitment?
Mr ELO (Finland) (translation)
Chancellor, you
said in your speech that you assumed Nato would be enlarged. You
also considered Nato’s future in response to a question on the subject.
Could you detail your ideas on the enlargement of Nato? For example,
is there a timetable? In your opinion, what countries will first
be considered as members? Finally, Chancellor, what influence does
Russia’s negative attitude have on the question of enlargement?
After all, President Yeltsin said a few weeks ago that the enlargement
of Nato might lead to war.
Mr GROSS (Switzerland) (translation)
Chancellor,
I should like to use the fact that you enjoy a discussion and like
to experiment to ask you a question and issue an invitation. Do
you not believe that with monetary union the imbalance between political
integration and democratic legitimacy on the one hand and economic
integration on the other could become so great that the intensity
of conflicts will increase to such a degree that it will no longer
be possible to deal with them by political means? Could you perhaps
put your ideas for the future in more concrete terms?
Mr KORKEAOJA (Finland)
European integration
is taking new steps on different levels: on the political level, the
Council of Europe is accepting new members; on the economic level,
the European Union is preparing for the next enlargement process;
on the military level, there is a debate about enlargement of Nato.
How do you see the relationships between those different aspects
of integration, and do you prefer one more than the other?
Mrs VEIDEMANN (Estonia)
Thank you for
your very encouraging speech, Chancellor. What, in your opinion, would
Germany be ready to do in the present situation to favour the integration
of central and eastern European countries, including the Baltic
states, into the European Union and the Western European Union?
Mr KILIÇ (Turkey)
I should like
to know your opinion, Chancellor Kohl, on the accession of Turkey
to the Customs Union. Your opinion and the attitude of Germany are
of utmost importance to Turkey because Germany is among the front-line
countries for Turkey in foreign trade and also because of the number
of Turkish citizens working in Germany.
Mr BARSONY (Hungary)
I fully agreed
with you, Chancellor Kohl, when you used the word Miteinanderreden.
Therefore, will you support the participation of the contracted
partners as observers at the intergovernmental conference?
Mr BARTODZIEJ (Poland) (translation)
Chancellor, Europe
needs a common, healthy economy, and this includes a good agricultural
policy. I should like to ask you what changes you think need to
be made in European agricultural policy in connection with the possible
enlargement of the European Union.
Mrs GUIRADO (Spain) (interpretation)
asked what the
Chancellor thought would be the best political response if many countries
were not ready for the third phase of economic and monetary union
in 1997.
Mr Kohl, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany (translation)
One of our colleagues asked whether
the countries of central and eastern Europe could be given a message
of optimism. I hope you understand the way I have begun to answer
this question. I cannot understand this scepticism and pessimism
at all. After all, you only have to compare the course of your own
lives with the number of years we have behind us. I referred earlier
to my period in office as Federal Chancellor. In a few days it will
be thirteen years. When I came to office the main subjects were
rearmament, the danger of war, the stationing of troops and the
acquisition of tanks. We were absolutely dominated by military issues.
I am now negotiating with Boris Yeltsin on what we can do
together in order, for example, to abolish biological weapons –
not only on paper but actually to scrap them, which is extremely
dangerous as far as some of these terrible weapons are concerned.
Colleagues, this has happened during my time in office, in just
over ten years. Just think about that.
Our colleague from eastern Europe who spoke just now would
not have dreamed ten years ago that he would be sitting in this
Assembly today. You do not need any encouragement; you only have
to look at yourselves in the mirror – and if, like me, you have
a wet shave you must do so twice a day. So, you have your image
in front of you. Just consider where you have come from. The decline
of the West is not taking place – this was the title of a book written
by a German in the twenties. It is not worth the paper it is written
on. You can throw these ideas away.
I do not travel around trying to heal the world with my speeches.
You know, when you have been head of government in Germany and chairman
of the Christian Democratic Union for long enough you are incapable of
healing anything through prayer. You must think every day about
how to stay firmly in the saddle, and you become an expert in this
area. Then you are a realist.
Just take a look around you. Look at your President. What
a splendid man. What a life he went through during the dictatorship,
and now he is sitting here as President of this important European
Organisation. I could illustrate this point by referring to the
lives of many others I recognise here in this Chamber.
Let us not say one person is an optimist and another is not.
We are realists, and we have a difficult road ahead.
I have spoken about Russia. Just take a look at its history.
Russia’s history does not begin with the October Revolution. The
Tsarist regime that preceded it was not a perfect example of democracy
either. There was already corruption then, and many other things
were wrong at that time too. You cannot expect all that to change
in three or four years. In particular, we must try to live with
individuals and peoples as they are. We cannot reinvent them every
day. It normally takes nine months for a result in this area, after
which the mother must bring her child up. So we must try to live
with individuals and peoples as they are, and with no one else. I
think the prospects are good.
The enlargement of Nato has been mentioned. Did anyone expect
Boris Yeltsin and the Russian leadership to jump up and say thank
goodness Nato is coming? Did you expect people in Russia to accept
this just like that? One of those who passionately support democracy
in Russia visited me a few days ago. He had been on a trip to Siberia
and other parts of Russia in preparation for the elections to the
Duma. He reported that he had been asked: If you become President
will you tolerate Nato bombarding Russian cities? We can, of course,
say this was an absurd question, but propaganda has shaped people’s
thinking all over Europe over a period of decades, and that goes
for Russia too. You cannot switch everything off overnight in the
way that you switch the light off and say things were not like that
at all.
We must speak to people and make things clear to them. It
is our job in the West – both mine and other people’s – to tell
them that we want to extend the Nato umbrella to the countries of
central and eastern Europe that want it and where it makes sense.
However, we do not want to do it with a show of strength that would
result in our opening up new rifts. Rather, we want a sensible agreement
with Russia, Ukraine and other states.
Just take it for granted – this was one of the questions –
that what I can do, what we Germans can do, we shall do, because
it is in our own best interests. A glance at the map shows – I also
say this to my compatriots at home – that our birthplace, as it
were, imposes on us a geopolitical obligation to do this. We cannot
live in peace in Germany when things are not going well in eastern
Europe, so this is in our best interests.
With regard to the question of monetary union and democratic
legitimacy, to be honest I did not understand it. If there is no
monetary union there is no political union. That is quite simple.
Those who believe they can have economic and monetary union without
a political union are being very unrealistic.
There are people in Europe who say this sometimes, but I have
not only had the suspicion but have been certain for some time that
they do not want political union. Rather, they want to ruin the
Union by supporting an isolationist policy.
I do not know why democracy should be in danger – I am using
my own words here – when we have monetary union. When we have a
European central bank and try to ensure we have a stable currency,
and when we ensure, as we are doing now, that the level of public
debt meets the criteria laid down in the Maastricht Treaty and that
inflation is reduced to an acceptable level, then this is certainly
compatible with my understanding of democracy. And when pressure
is exerted on individual states to meet these criteria, then, ladies
and gentlemen, I consider that, human nature being what is, this
is absolutely necessary from the educational point of view.
In contrast to most people sitting here in this Chamber, I
was a mediocre pupil at grammar school. If I had not been forced
to do something, with a view to moving up to the next class, I should
have done less work. If you no longer make the Maastricht Treaty’s
convergence criteria a precondition for monetary union national parliaments
and governments will say: why should we reduce our debts? The sensible
solution is to impose certain conditions that educate them in the
right direction. Educating a child is no different from educating
those involved in international politics.
I do not see any danger to democracy here. On the contrary,
I see a Europe that achieves more social stability and a Europe
that is able to compete on the world markets, especially in Asia.
I see greater social and economic stability, which will lead to
more stability for our democracy.
As far as Turkey’s accession to the Customs Union is concerned,
this is a question that I am not the right person to answer. I have
always been in favour but I am not the Turkish prime minister –
thank goodness. Turkish politicians must, of course, also make their
own contributions, especially in the Council of Europe. Let me be clear
on this: we Germans consider it highly desirable for the domestic
political situation in Turkey – with regard to human rights and
many other issues – to develop in such a way that Turkey can join
the Customs Union.
In Germany we have more Turkish citizens than any other country.
If I am not mistaken, based on the number of inhabitants Berlin
is currently the city with the fourth or fifth largest Turkish population.
We have millions of Turks in Germany who do excellent work and are
highly regarded. Our problem is that domestic disputes in Turkey,
such as those involving the Kurds and their individual groups, are
being carried on in our country. Anything that contributes to calming
the situation down and returning to normal is in Germany’s interests.
With regard to the question of agricultural policy, I have
an answer that will surprise you: the best thing that can happen
to European agricultural policy is for monetary union to come as
quickly as possible. You will find – and this astonishes many people
– that the greatest supporters of the early introduction of a European
currency are the European farmers’ associations – and for good reason.
We have not always taken a sensible course as far as European agricultural
policy is concerned. It is a fact that farmers have had to bear
the main burden in Europe, and this is quite wrong.
If we look back and consider the history of the European Community
we come to the conclusion that its basic structure was doubtless
mistaken. It was not right to lump steel, coal and agriculture together.
However, those who did so assumed that the process of European unity
would be much quicker. No one expected it to take decades. The farmers
have therefore had a disproportionate burden to bear.
If we can keep to the timetable – I have spoken about this
to representatives of the German farmers’ associations in the last
few days – we shall be doing something sensible here. However, it
is a fact that we could do a little more on the way. I also pointed
this out at the weekend in Mallorca.
As a Polish colleague has asked about this, I shall say that
if Poland itself wants to become a member of the European Union
in the foreseeable future and if it has fulfilled the necessary
preconditions something can, of course, be done in advance. We could,
for example, allow a Polish speciality, the Christmas goose, to
be imported into the European Union. We should, at any rate, not
behave in such an egocentric manner that small Polish farmers cannot
fail to get the impression that the members of the European Union
would not dream of letting Poland in. There are many small areas
in which we could do more without a conference having to be held
every time.
The next question is one that I expected, of course: the question
of the date for economic and monetary union. Ladies and gentlemen,
I do not understand all the discussions about this. We have made
clear agreements; we have a treaty in which the dates are mentioned.
The treaty also states that we can only establish an economic and
monetary union when the criteria are fulfilled. There are two things
that come together, the preconditions and the timetable. I do not
consider it at all wise to talk about changing the criteria at this
early stage. Germany will not support this, let me make this quite
clear.
Nor do I think it wise for us to “fiddle” with the timetable
now. Why do we have to talk about something now that will not have
to be discussed until the date laid down in the treaty? It will
be a pretty nonsensical policy to demotivate people now and tell
them or individual countries that “You have no chance; there’s no
way you can meet the criteria”. I warn you not to underestimate
the strength of a policy that, if it is implemented purposefully, can
achieve a great deal.
When I attended my first European Union summit as Chancellor
– this was in December 1982 – the most commonly used word in Europe
was “Eurosclerosis”, a combination of “Europe” and the name of a
terrible disease. I can still remember standing before journalists
at the press conference that followed: they laughed at me and thought
I was a dreamer. And now I am sitting among you and can state that
we have established the Maastricht Treaty; we have established the
single European market and achieved a lot more besides. I used only
to hear people say, “That won’t work”.
You do not need to tell me how difficult all this is. Sometimes
we must go a roundabout way; the direct route is not the one that
leads to Europe. You must make a lot of detours; you must often
make compromises to take account of national interests, people’s
vanities, etc. Throughout history it has never been any different. However,
when we set ourselves a goal we try to reach it. And if we sometimes
cannot cross the mountain we must walk round it. But the goal must
remain. I do not have the slightest doubt that we shall reach it.
I will tell you this, if we do not reach it we shall experience
a relapse in Europe. Those who do not believe me should take the
time at home to obtain newspapers from the year 1925, when Aristide
Briand and Gustav Stresemann received the Nobel Prize for the Pact
of Locarno, which brought about reconciliation between the Germans
and the French. If you had asked a hundred people at that time in
Berlin or Paris whether there would again be a war between Germany
and France, ninety or ninety-five would have answered “Never again”.
Eight years later Hitler came to power, and six years after that
the second world war began. When Briand and Stresemann sat together
on Lake Locarno they were able to look across the water into Italy,
where Mussolini was already in power.
History, ladies and gentlemen, does not simply repeat itself;
historical events are not identical, like a transparency made from
a drawing, but the fundamental features of history have deep roots.
If I had spoken to you in this Chamber five years ago and
we had said that this evening we should be watching the pictures
from the former Yugoslavia that we shall inevitably be seeing, most
of you here would have said it was unthinkable, and yet it has actually
become a reality. However, let us not only take note of these terrible realities
but consider whether we, as Europeans, should not contribute what
is best from our history. After all, we have not only fought wars
against each other. We are a large, old continent that has contributed
to world history for thousands of years.
I did not say “thousands of years” without good reason. In
five years’ time a new millennium will begin. A thousand years ago
people ran into the streets and squares – there is a lot of evidence
of this – and believed the world would be destroyed during the night.
We do not have this belief, but we nevertheless do not have the right
to believe that we cannot create anything positive in the new millennium,
in the new century. How can we give our young people, our own children,
hope for the future if all we do is persuade them the world is in decline?
I cannot understand this attitude.
I am now sixty-five years old and find life more worth living
as each day goes by. I pass this on to you.
THE PRESIDENT
We now have
three more questions, from Mr Korakas, Mr Landsbergis and Mr Zingeris. I
call Mr Korakas.
Mr KORAKAS (Greece) (translation)
Do you not think,
Mr Chancellor, that on the occasion of the fiftieth anniversary
of the victory over fascism, your country should repay to Greece
the compulsory loan that my country’s occupying government contracted
in Rome on 14 March 1942?
Similarly, do you not think it is time to settle the question
of compensating Greece for the damage and looting by the German
occupying troops between 1941 and 1944?
Mr LANDSBERGIS (Lithuania)
Mr Chancellor,
given your novel statement about Germany’s responsibility in the
tragic fate of the Baltic states between 1939 and 1991, I cannot
forget that on that same day in 1940 when the Soviets occupied Lithuania,
the nazis occupied Paris, and after that our embassy there was turned
over to the Soviet authorities. It continues to be occupied to this
day.
I should like to express my hope that you will use your good
offices to influence Moscow to be trustful and to remove one of
the barriers to Russia’s European integration.
Mr ZINGERIS (Lithuania) (translation)
Chancellor,
the German people has done a very great deal since the second world war
to restore human dignity both in Germany and in Europe as a whole.
There was a people in 1939 of whom 10 million spoke Yiddish. This
language, this culture, was doubtless part of European culture.
The National Socialists set up special groups to steal items belonging
to this cultural heritage and bring them to the Third Reich.
In order to preserve our awareness of the unity of the history
of Europe, I should like to ask you, Chancellor, what do you think
must be done?
Mr Kohl, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany (translation)
With regard to the question asked
by the member from Greece I wish to point out that – you probably
know this – we reached a final settlement as far as western Europe,
to which Greece belongs, is concerned in the agreement signed in
London many years ago.
I should like to take this opportunity to remind you of something.
What I am about to say is not an apology for the barbaric acts committed
by the nazis – the terrible things they did to human beings cannot
be put right with money. It is a fact that up to 31 December 1994
Germany had paid 100 thousand million Deutschmarks in compensation
– that’s right, 100 thousand million Deutschmarks. Although we cannot
undo the terrible things that occurred we really have demonstrated
our good will. This applies not least to our relationship with the Jews,
to whom particularly dreadful things were done both by Germans and
in the name of all Germans. When I was in Israel a few months ago
this was very clearly said by both the President and the Prime Minister.
Mr Landsbergis, I have already said what needs to be said
with respect to the Baltic states. For me it is absolutely clear
that we must reach solutions together. We must not make threatening
gestures to one another. We must take account of the special situation
of the Baltic states and, in particular, of the people living there, who
have memories of members of their own families, both those who remained
and those who were deported to Siberia. All these things leave their
mark. We cannot, therefore, just content ourselves with looking
at the past and showing sympathy but must try to create a secure
future in a free Europe-for the three Baltic peoples. However, we
also need partners for this, and one of them is Russia. For me both
belong together.
As far as I can see, Mr President, my speaking time has expired.
In conclusion, may I say thank you for the discussion we have had.
I am very impressed, Mr President, with the radical way you deal
with the list of speakers. We can learn something from this in the
Bundestag. If we were to do that the newspapers would, of course,
call us people still living in the past and undemocratic. In your
case, of course, this suspicion does not arise. That is why I am
particularly impressed. Thank you for being kind enough to listen
to what I have had to say.
Permit me, in conclusion, to repeat something I said earlier
– I think you will believe me when I say I am not a person given
to making unconsidered remarks – you can simply believe this when
it is said by someone who has so much experience of life, including
political life, as I have. Please do not let yourselves be influenced
by the news we hear every day that the world is coming to an end;
that the atmosphere will soon be destroyed; that all the forests
are dying; and that the water will soon be undrinkable.
To be sure, we have tremendous problems in all these areas,
and the question of the preservation of the rainforests in Indonesia
and Brazil -I have spoken in the last few days to the Brazilian
President about this – is one of the great challenges of our time.
The climate of Strasbourg and the Rhine valley also depends on this. However,
this must not prevent us from realising that we have far more opportunities
at the end of this century than previous generations. I do not believe
that we make use of our chances by concealing our joy. I do not believe
that we make use of our chances by only thinking that this is the
worst of all possible worlds. I just do not believe this.
At the beginning of the post-war period we had a play entitled
Wir sind nock einmal davongekommen (We’ve escaped again). It was
performed in 1947, and at Christmas that year there were more suicides
than ever before in German history. That was 1947; it is now 1995.1
and millions of others lived through that period. A new generation
has since grown up. Two-thirds of Germans living today were born
and grew up after Hitler. There is no reason for us to give up,
nor is there for you. I think it is a privilege to be able to sit
in this Parliamentary Assembly.
THE PRESIDENT
Although
I am coming to the end of my presidency, I have never before seen
members of the Assembly standing to applaud a distinguished guest
in that way. It was exceptional.
It is true that the President must rule over the proceedings
very strictly, particularly on this occasion when so many members
wanted to speak. Incidentally, if a German arrives here five minutes
late that is okay – but a Spaniard cannot afford to do so. We must
be absolutely on time.
I wish to express the Assembly’s gratitude for not only your
performance today Chancellor Kohl but for everything that you have
done for Europe in the past and are doing now. I thank you also
for all that you are doing for the Council of Europe and for that
which we expect you to do in future. Accordingly, we have decided to
award you the pro merito medal with which we honour the most distinguished
Europeans. I have chosen to award it to you in this Chamber rather
than in my office, because you deserve more than that.
(The President then presented the Council of Europe’s
pro merito medal to Chancellor Kohl.)