THE PRESIDENT
Thank you
very much indeed, President Shevardnadze, for your broad, humane
and optimistic speech. As you know, members have expressed the wish
to put questions to you. I have a list of seventeen questions. I
therefore propose not to allow members to ask supplementary questions.
In an effort to get everybody in, we have tried to group the questions
according to subject, but the range of questions is so wide that
that has not always been easy. The first two questions concern Georgia’s
membership of the Council of Europe. To ask the first one I call
Mrs Aytaman of Turkey, who is a member of the European Democratic Group,
or the Conservative Group, if you like.
Mrs AYTAMAN (Turkey)
First, may I extend
through you my heartfelt congratulations to the Georgian nation on
Georgia’s well-deserved membership of the Council of Europe. The
Turkish parliamentary delegation voted unanimously in favour of
Georgia’s membership. Your country has excellent political relations
with its neighbour, Turkey. Your close personal relationship with
the Turkish President, Mr Demirel, and other high level Turkish
officials contributes to the friendship of the two neighbouring
nations. In Turkey you are a popular personality whose wisdom and
friendship is greatly appreciated.
Now your country is a member of the Council of Europe, of
which Turkey was a founder member. Some aspects of Turkish-Georgian
relations fall within the priority areas of the Council, such as
transfrontier cooperation and combating terrorism and organised
crime. In view of that, how do you see the future of Turkish-Georgian relations,
and to what extent can Georgia’s membership of the Council contribute
to relations among the Caucasian countries?
THE PRESIDENT
I remind
members that we are asking for questions of no longer than thirty
seconds if possible, not speeches. Mr Shevardnadze, will you respond?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
confirmed that Georgia had an
extremely good relationship with Turkey, both on a national basis
and between the respective presidents. The big threat to their mutual
arrangements was the burgeoning crime in the region, which had led
to the development of a transit corridor for criminals and an increase
of narcotics trafficking. He was, nevertheless, sure that the exemplary co-operation
would continue.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next question is from Mr Behrendt of Germany, who is a member
of the Socialist Group. It is on the same subject.
Mr BEHRENDT (Germany) (translation)
Mr President,
allow me, on behalf of the German delegation, to congratulate Georgia
on its accession to the Council of Europe. I am particularly pleased
to do this because I am aware of the important role you played in
the unification of Germany. Thank you very much.
I should like to ask a question on the situation of the minorities.
As you know, the protection of minorities is an issue the Council
of Europe considers very important. You said that you saw some progress
towards resolving the conflict in Abkhazia. Do you consider that
the Council's requirements regarding the protection of minorities have
been met, and how do you assess the chances of satisfactorily resolving
the other ethnic conflicts in this region – in Ossetia and Nagorno-Karabakh?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
said that Georgia had unique
experience over thousands of years in dealing satisfactorily with
ethnic minorities.
Georgia had recently celebrated twenty-six centuries of Georgians
and Jews living side by side. There were many other minorities in
Georgia, including Armenians and Russians, all of whom had the same
rights as Georgians. There were, however, problems. The state was
still weak economically and could not do all that was required to
help minorities because of financial limitations. Georgia’s position
on the Silk Route could help it economically. Georgia had signed
many conventions, the requirements of which would help its development.
THE PRESIDENT
I warn members
that unless they adhere to the thirty second limit, we shall not
have time for all the questions. We shall time questions on the
clock so that members may see their progress.
The next question is from Mr Oliynyk, a member of the Socialist
Group, who wants to ask about the territorial integrity of the sovereign
states.
Mr OLIYNYK (Ukraine) (interpretation)
said he represented
the European Left. He welcomed and complimented the President of
Georgia. He asked whether, with the tragedy in Yugoslavia, the President
had changed his view that separatism was a destructive force.
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
returned the questioner’s compliments
and said that aggressive separatism was an evil of our era.
THE PRESIDENT
The next
question is from Mr Iwinski, who is a member of the Socialist Group,
and who wants to ask about relations between Georgia and Russia.
Mr IWINSKI (Poland)
One of the results
of the dissolution of the Soviet Union at the end of 1991 was the creation
of several post-Soviet sovereign states, which has essentially changed
the political map of Europe and, indeed, the world. For obvious
reasons, Georgia’s relations with Russia remain crucial. How would
you assess them, Mr President? Will you also comment on the role
of the independent states and your country’s place in the Commonwealth
of Independent States (CIS)?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
said that Georgia enjoyed a
good relationship with Russia, although there were some difficulties.
Some healing was required. He thought the CIS had a future only
if it helped member states to guarantee their independence and help
them economically. The last summit of the CIS had been held in that
spirit.
THE PRESIDENT
The next
question is from Mr Solonari, who is a member of the Socialist Group,
and who wants to ask a question on Black Sea co-operation.
Mr SOLONARI (Moldova)
In your powerful
speech, Mr President, you referred to the Black Sea Economic Co-operation
Agreement, which you highly approve of and to which I fully subscribe.
There is one more organisation which has signed an agreement; it
comprises Georgia, Azerbaijan and Moldova. Will you share with us
your assessment of how things are going within the framework of
that agreement?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
said that the association of
countries in the area had been formed under unusual circumstances.
Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine had decided to expand their
sphere of co-operation to include political topics. Uzbekhistan
was a new member of the group which had particular interest in matters
related to the Silk Route. The group, which had once concentrated
on only one topic, now had a more comprehensive agenda.
THE PRESIDENT
The next
question is from Mr Atkinson, the leader of the European Democratic
Group the Conservative Group who wants to ask about Chechnya and
Transcaucasia.
Mr ATKINSON (United Kingdom)
You have
clearly acknowledged the new responsibilities that your country has
entered into and of course it has new authority as the only Council
of Europe member state in the southern Caucasus. Will you use that
new authority to encourage Council of Europe standards in your neighbour, Chechnya,
and to promote transfrontier co-operation and interparliamentary
dialogue as the keys to long-term peace in the disputes on Abkhazia
and Nagorno-Karabakh?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
said that a new organisation
called the Movement for a Peaceful Caucasus had been set up to encourage
co-operation between countries in the region. He wanted to foster
friendship and good relations between Georgia and the Chechens and
to promote progress.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next question is about minorities and displaced persons in the
Caucasus. I call Mrs Durrieu, who is leader of the French delegation
and a member of the Socialist Group.
Mrs DURRIEU (France) (translation)
Mr President,
I would like to tell you, on behalf of the French delegation, how pleased
we are that you are with us here today and thank you for expressing
your ability to pardon, a word which we have hardly ever heard in
this forum. I am also grateful to you for remaining resolutely optimistic.
Together with Armenia and Azerbaijan, Georgia is part of the
geographical region of the Caucasus. Can this notion of region and
regional co-operation help settle the problem of minorities? You
have just answered that question, because Mr Atkinson, the previous
speaker, asked a similar question.
I shall therefore ask another question, Mr President. If Russia
participates in the settlement of the Kosovo problem, do you think
that, logically, it should also immediately become involved in settling
the issue of Abkhazia?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
said that it was his personal
feeling that the achievement of a settlement would be accelerated
if Russia became involved. Mr Chernomyrdin would be the best person to
answer the question why Russia had not become involved.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next question is on transport co-operation. It is from Mr Dayanikli
who is in the Socialist Group.
Mr DAYANIKLI (Turkey)
I express my excitement
and happiness at seeing our Georgian neighbours as full members
of the Council of Europe.
In a few days, the Assembly will discuss a report on pan-European
transport policies. At this juncture, the new oil pipeline from
Baku to Supsa is well worth mentioning as well as the planned Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan
pipeline.
Given Georgia’s ever-increasing economic relations with Turkey
and the close co-operation between the two friendly countries on
transportation, what is your assessment of the rail and road links
between the two countries for the Caucasus and central Asian states,
and what measures is Georgia contemplating to improve its rail connections
with Turkey? Thank you.
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
said that Georgia was pursuing
a number of plans, focusing particularly on railway links. There
had been some problems securing funding, but a number of banks were
showing interest. There were over one hundred joint ventures with
Turkey in total.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next question is on the Silk Route. It is to be asked by Mr Muehlemann who
is a Liberal from Switzerland.
Mr MUEHLEMANN (Switzerland) (translation)
Mr President,
you referred a number of times to the Tracecca project to extend
the Silk Route. Last year, your defence minister launched a courageous
operation to put down a revolt directed against the completion of
the oil pipeline.
How secure is the completion of this important project, and
can western investors, who are important for economic progress in
your country, count on legal certainty and support from your government?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
said that the recent attempt
to destabilise the country had involved only a small group and was
over in two hours. All authorities and institutions were now functioning as
normal.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
There are now two questions on Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Mr Zierer.
Mr ZIERER (Germany) (translation)
Mr President,
Georgia’s accession brings with it a number of rights, but also
a number of duties. Like all other member states, Georgia is called
upon to make every effort to meet the conditions of membership,
especially as far as respect for human and minority rights is concerned.
I should like to ask what measures Georgia has taken so far
in order to reduce its internal tensions on a lasting basis, for
example in Ossetia and Abkhazia, and whether there are any concrete
plans for future measures.
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
replied that the conflict was
in its final stages. In Abkhazia the situation was more complex
and he thanked Germany for its assistance in this matter. With the help
of the international community there were grounds for optimism.
Mrs ISOHOOKANA-ASUNMAA (Finland)
The Abkhazian
conflict has remained unresolved for a long time. The situation
appears to have deteriorated and reached deadlock. To what extent
will it be possible in the foreseeable future to meet the Abkhazian
demands of increased autonomy or some form of self-determination? How
do you see the future of Ossetia? Does it seek autonomy as strongly
as Abkhazia does?
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
replied that this was a central
matter for Abkhazia and that Georgia was prepared to provide the
highest possible autonomy. It would have its own constitution, parliament,
and judiciary, but within a single Georgia. There were problems
with the word autonomy, but these could be addressed in the spirit
of negotiation and compromise. Now that people were returning to
Ossetia, consideration could be given to their concerns. The OSCE
and other European structures could help.
THE PRESIDENT
We are running
out of time. We have two questions on the Meskhetian minority, which
I shall call one after the other rather than separately. First,
I call Mr Kelemen, who is a member of the Christian Democratic Group.
Mr KELEMEN (Hungary)
You have mentioned
the painful situation of different groups of Georgian refugees. When
I was the Rapporteur of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human
Rights I became a friend of Georgia. What developments have there
been since your presidential decree on the Meskhetian people, who
were expelled from Georgia under the regime of Stalin and who intend
to go back to their homeland?
Mr KHARITONOV (Russian Federation) (interpretation)
congratulating
Georgia on its accession to the Council of Europe, asked about the
timescale to be adopted in respect of the implementation of minority
rights.
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
replied that he had already
mentioned the repression of Stalin and the Bolsheviks, when thousands
had died. The question of the Meskhetians, deported in the 1940s, was
one of the most topical problems. They ought to be brought back
over a period of time. Georgia had been working on an implementation
plan covering both the number of people and their places of future
settlement. Georgia was keen to see this injustice righted. He thanked
the Russian Federation for supporting Georgia’s membership of the
Council of Europe.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
There are four questions left. I shall call them one after the other
and I ask for them to be very brief. If we do that, perhaps we shall
finish all the questions, which would be a minor triumph. I call
Mr Cherribi, who is a Liberal.
Mr CHERRIBI (Netherlands) (translation)
The whole
of Europe is talking about the problems we are likely to encounter when
we enter the new millennium. We are all trying to reduce the risk.
Is Georgia in a position to face up to this ordeal and combat the
millennium bug, and how do you intend to deal with the problem posed
by the state of the nuclear power stations inherited from the Soviet
Empire’s period of stagnation? Are you receiving enough aid from
the European Union?
We wish Georgia a good start after the weekend which opens
the new millennium. Thank you.
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
responding to the question from
Mr Cherribi said that, while he was not a specialist in information
technology, he was aware that the hydropower systems relied on computer
technology.
THE PRESIDENT
You were
very clear, Mr President. However, I would ask you not to answer
until the end of the next three questions, which are on different
subjects. I call Mr Kosakivsky.
Mr KOSAKIVSKY (Ukraine) (interpretation)
asked his question
concerning local self-government in Georgia.
Mr GOULET (France) (translation)
Mr President,
allow me to change the subject, although the previous ones are of
the utmost importance.
How do you plan to capitalise on your country’s natural assets?
I am referring in particular to the fact that Georgia has water
resources which give it the potential to become a “reservoir” for
the region and even for areas further afield. The country also offers
possibilities for the development of tourism, given its well-preserved sites
and rich historic, cultural and religious heritage. Owing to its
favourable geographical location it offers a range of magnificent
landscapes from the Caucasus mountains to the shores of the Black
Sea.
In view of these assets, in my opinion Georgia cannot but
be content with unfocused assistance from the Council of Europe.
What are the first concrete measures you would like to see
introduced in the near future in order to establish a true partnership
with Europe?
THE PRESIDENT
I call Mrs Squarcialupi
to ask her question. As she is not present I invite Mr Shevardnadze to
respond to the questions.
Mr Shevardnadze, President of Georgia (interpretation)
confirmed that municipal problems
had been addressed. Local elections had been held. Within two years
it would be possible to elect local administrations. The problem with
Georgia’s plentiful natural assets was the lack of finance with
which to develop them. However, foreign investment was now being
attracted from a number of countries including Japan, the United
States and the European Union. In due course, Georgia expected to
attract large numbers of tourists. The Council of Europe would help
Georgia and mutual co-operation would be further developed.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you
very much for your painstaking replies to the questions, Mr President.
After that marathon, you deserve a good lunch. This being France,
that is guaranteed.
