THE PRESIDENT
Thank you,
Mr President, for your statement and the information about your
problems and troubles, as well as the difficulties in your society.
However, we also thank you for the projects that you are undertaking
and your engagement here in the Council of Europe with the aim of
making progress in establishing a normal state with the rule of
law, human rights and real democracy.
People here in the Council of Europe know the Dayton Agreement
and its institutions. They also know of the difficulties in your
country, and many times they have demanded here in the Council of
Europe to know when we can go on with reform of the Dayton Agreement.
You came to tell us of the necessity of the project to reform that
agreement. That is also the position of our Assembly.
We now come to the questions. Many people have asked to be
able to put a question to you, Mr President. Remember, colleagues,
that you have only 30 seconds.
The first question is from Mr Cebeci, on behalf of the Group
of the European People’s Party.
Mr CEBECÌ (Turkey)
Thank you, Mr President,
for your address to our Assembly. What is the biggest challenge
for Bosnia and Herzegovina on its way to completing the necessary
reforms? In that context, what is your first request for support
from the Council of Europe in reaching that objective?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Thank you for
that question. The answer will be very short. Bosnia and Herzegovina,
because of the system, is a blocked country. We need a new constitution.
I hope that this Organisation can help us to agree on a constitution
that is truly democratic and that serves first the citizens of Bosnia
and Herzegovina. It is true that we have a lot of differences –
serious differences – but nothing is impossible. We respect this
Organisation very much and we in Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well
as people in other places, need an institution that we respect and
believe in, especially when it comes to human rights, the rule of
law and democracy. I believe that this Organisation can help us
to get there.
Mr GROSS (Switzerland)
Mr President,
those who listened carefully to your speech and to the answer that you
have just given will understand very well why you like the suggestion
that Dayton was good for ending the war, but not so good for building
up a new democratic state. How do you respond to the fear of those
who do not belong to your nation or to your community that, when
you go beyond Dayton, they will be the losers? They are afraid of
a dictatorship of the majority. Democracy is about more than just
the majority. How will you deal with the concerns of those other
people?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
That question
pertains to the content of my speech. As I said – I tried to explain
– the fear is now that of the minority, not of the majority. Many
important decisions are blocked by the minority, not by the majority.
Now, if you think it is better that the minority blocks the majority,
that is okay with me, but this issue is not about the majority and
the minority; it is about basic human rights.
One of the basic human rights is the right for people to return
to their homes. As I said, 1.2 million people never returned to
their homes. That is the latest OSCE statistic. If we are talking
about human rights, that is one of the basics.
Those people did not return because of the obstructions. Of
course we have differences; I stated that. We have very serious
differences. I might say that there is a difference of philosophical
outlook, of world view. Some prefer, as I do, the civic citizen
state that makes all citizens equal, with their rights, their responsibilities
and so on. Others would prefer to put to the fore the primacy of
ethnic groups. I want to tell you that Bosnia and Herzegovina never
knew such a thing in its history. Its multiculturalism is hundreds
and hundreds of years old. I do not want to go back into history,
but it is at least 1 000 years old. It survived all those centuries,
but it almost died at the end of the 20th century. I hope that it
will survive the 21st century. That is why I say that things are difficult.
We have to agree on a constitution that will serve every single
citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
People’s fears are always important, whether they are real
or not. I will tell you something: I am not new in politics and
I have been involved in it for some time, including during the most
difficult periods. I am proud to tell you that what I have said
today is what I was saying in 1992, 1993 and 1994, when it was very
difficult to be democratic and objective. The other day I read some
of my statements from 1992 and 1993, and I am proud of them. I can
assure those who read them that they have nothing to fear. Again,
I thank you for your question.
Ms KEAVENEY (Ireland)
Like Ireland,
Bosnia and Herzegovina is a country that has known conflict. What role,
if any, does history teaching in schools play in developing peace
and understanding among all citizens and entities in your country?
How are the very diverse views and interactions of the different
cultures represented in Bosnia and Herzegovina supported in co-ordinated
and practical policies, particularly given the number of education
ministers in the entities?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Unfortunately,
the non-implementation of the Dayton Agreement – I am thinking of
Annexe 4 of our peace agreement, the constitution – is conducive
to segregation and, some say, apartheid. We have, unfortunately,
cases where children are segregated according to their ethnicity,
which is a disgrace, and not only for Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some people
even say openly that that is a solution. We should not allow that
to determine the right of citizenship in modern Europe, yet it is
happening in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Probably we did not do enough,
so I urge institutions such as this one and the bodies within it
to help us to end this practice, which is probably the wish of the
majority of people in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
What does this teach us? Bosnia and Herzegovina is a big lesson,
and is therefore a big symbol and a big message. The question is:
what kind of message do we send? Shall we allow the consequences
of genocide to stand? Shall we allow the Dayton peace agreement
to become an umbrella under which Milošević’s project can thrive?
That is the question.
As for the history – I will end with this – it is interesting
that the other day I spoke with Sir Patrick Cormack, a member of
the United Kingdom Parliament, who proposed that we should all come
to Belfast and talk to people there to see how they settled their
differences, which is acceptable if the other side accepts. That
is enough for the time being, and I thank you for your question.
Mr JACOBSEN (Norway)
Dayton was good
for stopping the war, but it was based on ethnic compromises and
could not lead to efficient decisions, owing to political issues
and so on. What concrete reforms do you think should be introduced
for the best for all people in Bosnia and Herzegovina? In which
areas and in what way can the state be strengthened?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
I am not a supporter
of a centralised state and never have been, but I believe that we
should strengthen our state institutions, because the present system,
way of voting, and so on makes Bosnia and Herzegovina inefficient.
I believe that Bosnia and Herzegovina should consist of economic
regions, in order to follow the trend that is known to Europe and
known to be efficient, rather than following ethnic criteria. Economic
criteria should be put at the fore. That is the way to do it.
By the way, the system prevents us from making decisions about
very important matters, including our economy. Many of you present
may know that Bosnia and Herzegovina is a rich country in terms
of human and natural resources. Today, we all know how big the demand
for energy is, but 63% of our hydropower is unused. That means that
there are thousands and thousands of megawatts that we could put
into the European network to contribute to the well being of Europeans.
However, we are not using that power because we do not have state
planning or the will to do so. That is also the case for other sectors
of the economy, such as infrastructure.
I am not against people having the right to say “We are Croats”,
“We are Serbs”, or, “We are Bosniacs”, or to protect their vital
interests. I am saying that the best for Bosnia and Herzegovina
would be to have economic regions. That would give a great boost
to our economy, and link those regions with the states and regions
in the vicinity and Europe as a whole. That would be the best thing,
and as far as I can see, a lot of our citizens agree.
Mr IVANIĆ (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
You
mentioned that there were two Bosniacs in the delegation from our
parliament from 14, but you did not mention that there are zero
Serbs, from 28 in the federation. You heavily criticised all the
others and did not even mention the federation, where you have a
majority and a key role. After such statements, do you think that
the country will be more divided than before your statement?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Thank you, Mr Ivanić.
I wish that you would ask this question in Bosnia and Herzegovina
when we meet, but it is good that we can have this interaction here.
I did not say that everything in the federation was okay, but I
think that you will agree with me that Republika Srpska is an example
of the non-implementation of the Dayton Agreement in its most vital annexe,
which is Annexe 7, on the return of refugees. I think that you will
agree that having only 8% of non-Serbs, out of 46%, says everything,
after all the implementation and all the means and money put into
the effort.
The second part of your question is very interesting and I
hope that I will have your attention for the next couple of minutes.
You said that Bosnia would be more divided because of what I had
said. That is the same reasoning that, during the Second World War,
when some American generals proposed to bomb the tracks leading
to Auschwitz, led some others to say no, because the Nazis would
get mad – you can find that in the Holocaust museum in Washington.
So, the Nazis did not get mad; they killed only 6 million people.
The same thing goes for the aggression on Bosnia and Herzegovina.
One very well-known player in the international arena, a representative
of a major European country, supported the embargo on Bosnia and Herzegovina,
helping Milošević. He justified that by saying, “If we lifted the
embargo” – this relates to taking away our right of self-defence
– “it would be like adding oil to the fire.” Therefore, the fire
was quelled by the innocent and that was his justification. The
American general was wrong. That representative of a major European
country was also wrong.
In Sarajevo, a representative of another major European country,
commenting on the International Court of Justice verdict, said,
“We have this verdict and it is a verdict of genocide. There is
genocide in Bosnia but this judgment should remain within its own
confines”, probably meaning the archives. Do you really think that
what I say today can add to those hundreds of thousands killed,
those tens of thousands of women raped, the 1 400 children in Sarajevo
killed? God knows what is happening to some of those whose whereabouts
we do not know – 15 000 of them, and Bosnia is a small country.
Do you think it will make the position worse? I think not.
It is time that we said that the Milošević project will not
thrive under the umbrella of the Dayton Agreement. There must be
human rights in Bosnia. People must return. There must be the rule
of law not only here but elsewhere, otherwise Bosnia sends a bad
message.
This body is interested in basic human rights, the rule of
law and, I hope, democracy in Bosnia. We do have democracy in Bosnia
and Herzegovina. Our elections are really democratic. I am sure
that those who oversee the election will come back with the same
results, but once we start voting, it is not democracy for some.
I thank you again and hope that we can discuss that matter again
in Sarajevo and Bosnia and Herzegovina. I am ready to do so any
time.
Mrs MARKOVIĆ (Bosnia and Herzegovina) (interpretation)
asked
whether Mr Silajdžić felt that he could remain as Head of State
in Bosnia and Herzegovina in light of his recent actions.
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Thank you for
your question. I will tell you something that you already know,
I think. I am the chair of the presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina by
virtue of democratic elections. As you probably know, I won by a
big margin, so I do have democratic credentials and I represent
Bosnia and Herzegovina.
It is true that we have differences and you are probably referring
to the letter of Mr Radmanović. We did not agree on that letter
either, to follow the same logic as you. In any case, I always say
that I want to be honest, and we do not play games. Too many people
died and this is too serious to play games. It is so serious that
I sometimes find it disturbing that, for example, the judgment of
the International Court of Justice on genocide is ignored – the
first and only such judgment in history. Of course, there have been
other genocides but I am talking about official genocide. This is
so serious that I will not be stopped from speaking in the name
of the victims by any flawed procedure.
Referring to that letter, it has not been agreed to. Generally,
there are big differences, but I hope that we can find common ground.
That common ground is the values codified as standards and laws
that we must all follow, and they are here in Europe and in the
Council of Europe. I thank you for your question.
Mr IWIŃSKI (Poland)
May I refer to
your last reply? Many of us are concerned by recent information
on the increase in instability in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The public
calls between two out of three members of your presidency have even
reached the UN. It is not a standard situation, to put it mildly.
Could relations between Sarajevo and Banja Luka be improved in the
foreseeable future?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
I do not know:
that is between Sarajevo and Banja Luka. Those are citizens of Bosnia
and Herzegovina, to whom we are responsible and to whom we report,
wherever they are. We have been trying to do that. Those who oversee
the Dayton Agreement, the Peace Implementation Council, admitted
that, but the problem is in drawing the line of equality.
That is why I ask all of you here specifically to say who
is saying what and who is doing what. For over two years, we have
heard disturbing statements by some leaders in Republika Srpska
bordering on separatism, which can bring a lot of problems in Bosnia
and Herzegovina. It is fair to ask who is saying what and who is doing
what? That is why I specifically asked this body to point the finger:
to say you did this and you said that. Always hiding behind two
sides is the result of the philosophy of the least line of resistance.
I know that the international community generally is in love
with the status quo, but I believe that this Assembly understands,
because it has followed the problems closely in our country for
such a long time. It is high time that we saw who is doing what
and why and then have some sanctions, otherwise there will always
be two sides, and we will do nothing. In the end, we will have no
desire to do that. I thank you for your question.
Mr KOÇ (Turkey)
Mr President,
thank you very much for your address to the Assembly. Probably right
after the local elections, you will start to work hard for constitutional
reform. As it takes almost totally opposite views on the future
constitutional arrangement, do you believe that the leadership in
your country is capable of working on it without the interference
of the international community?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
I do not. I think
that not only expertise but political input is needed. This is an
international project, and we are entitled to the assistance of the
international community in doing it. I must say – although it is
not easy for me – that the international community did interfere
during the attacks and aggression on Bosnia and Herzegovina in a
form that helped Milošević’s project. They took away from us our
right of self-defence. They imposed an embargo that cost a lot of
life. That is what I said in the United Nations, believing that
the United Nations, specifically the Security Council, has responsibility,
at least partly. The UN intervened. It was not an indifferent or
neutral position. It took away our right of self-defence, at the
same time allowing those with military power to wage war against civilians.
On that basis, I believe that it is in order and fair for the international
community to help us to settle the situation.
Mr BIBERAJ (Albania)
Thank you, Mr President,
for coming here and discussing with us this very important issue
regarding your country. My question is how you see your country’s
perspective regarding your integration with the EU and NATO membership.
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
I am glad to
be able to tell you that it is going well. Despite the system that
is blocked, as I said, I think that we have done a lot and that
we can do more. All those who visited Bosnia and Herzegovina can
witness the progress there. There will be some difficult issues,
of course, and we are going to deal with them. But in general I
am satisfied and, as far as this is concerned, I am an optimist.
We can have a good economy. We already have 6% growth. We have natural resources
and human resources. We are doing well in fulfilling one of our
strategic goals, which is to join NATO. I also think that we are
doing well on the path towards the European Union. However, the
most difficult task ahead of us is the integration of our community.
We were living side by side in Bosnia and Herzegovina – we genuinely
co-existed. Now that is not the case, and that is something that
we would like to fix.
Mr NESSA (Italy) (interpretation)
said that Mr Silajdžić
had spoken warmly of his love for his country and had acknowledged that
there was a lot of work to be done. He had done a lot for his country
and was obviously wedded to his people. He had mentioned priorities.
Which of the matters he had referred to was the top priority?
Mr Silajdžić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina
I can give the
answer to that question, and I shall write to reiterate it. The
Dayton Agreement stopped the killing in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and
stopped the suffering of civilians. We are very grateful for that.
Obviously there had to be some contradictions and deficiencies.
It was very difficult to find common ground in Dayton, where I was
present along with all the others. At that time. Milošević was a
peacemaker and President Tudjman was very strong, and our delegation
was split, as it were. It was very difficult to find a compromise.
It is no wonder that the peace agreement has some contradictions
and deficiencies.
Now we need to go forward. We need a new constitution – a
constitution that will be conducive to the promotion of democracy
and not ethnocracy. Bosnia and Herzegovina does not deserve to step
back into the ethnic and tribal systems. It deserves something else,
because it is one of the places that keeps the tissue of our civilisation
together. It is a model in respect of all the experiences that have
occurred, bad and good. This authentic and ancient multicultural
world does not deserve to descend into having frontiers between
children who live side by side. That is why I believe that we need
a new constitution. That is my rather long answer to the question.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you,
Mr President, for answering our questions. Thank you also for your
clarity and your engagement with our Assembly. I want only to add
that in your project for the new constitution and democracy, you
can count on us.