THE PRESIDENT
Mr President,
may I express the gratitude of the Assembly for the fact that you
were willing to address us and thereby inform us of your philosophy,
the philosophy of the people of Spain. You were right in saying
that the Europe in which you believe – the Europe of freedom – is
the Europe which is represented in this Assembly.
We now come to the parliamentary questions for oral answer
contained in Document 4286. Twenty-eight questions have been tabled
to the Head of Government of Spain. He must leave at about 6. p.m.
so I hope that if it is necessary to ask any additional questions
they will be very short. Mr Suarez will reply to each question in
the order in which the questions appear in Document 4286.
Question No. 1 is from Mr Hofer and reads as follows:
“Mr Hofer
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain:
a. in view of the need for increased co-operation in the Mediterranean
area, to what extent the Council of Europe, as a body set up to
achieve closer union between the countries of Europe, can, from
a Spanish standpoint, increase its efforts in this respect vis-à-vis
member states riparian to the Mediterranean;
b. to what extent Spain expects the Council of Europe to contribute
to preparation of the meeting on follow-up action to the Conference
on Security and Co-operation in Europe, to be held in Madrid in
autumn 1980, either in respect of
– the activities of the Committee of Ministers and their Deputies,
or of
– technical assistance which Spain might wish to have in organising
this meeting.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
Mr President, it seems to me that
I have replied to the first question on Spanish foreign policy in
the Mediterranean area in the statement I have just made. I think Mr Hofer
also wanted to know how much help the Council of Europe would be
able to provide towards the Conference on Security and Co-operation
to be held in Madrid in 1980. First, let me say that Spain is certainly grateful
for any co-operation she may receive from the Committee of Ministers
or their Deputies, particularly in respect of activities likely
to promote détente and in any fields in which the Council has taken
an active line. As for the second part of his question about possible
technical assistance, we do not think this will be required but Spain
naturally reserves the possibility of asking for it should she deem
it necessary. Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT
We come
next to Question No. 2 by Mr Jager which reads as follows:
“Mr Jager
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain:
a. how he interprets the opinion of the Commission of the
European Communities, adopted on 29 November 1978, concerning Spain’s
application for accession to the European Economic Community;
b. what, in particular, is his attitude regarding the dismantling
of tariff barriers, concertation in agricultural matters and the
duration of the transitional period.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
This question I think, Mr President,
refers only to the dismantling of tariff barriers. Obviously, Ladies
and Gentlemen, the world economic crisis has produced a protectionist
reaction in almost every country in the world, even, I believe,
in some Community countries. The policy of the Spanish Government
is to resist firmly any temptation to turn protectionist. It demonstrated
its good intentions in the course of 1978 when it reduced its tariffs
by almost 20%, as also during its negotiations with the EFTA countries.
In the future and when negotiating her entry into the Community,
Spain will always be ready to make renewed efforts to promote Spanish-Community
trade.
Mr JAGER (France) (translation)
I should like
to thank the Spanish Prime Minister and to ask him very briefly
if he could give us some further information on the concertation
in agricultural matters which he intends to put into effect and
on the probable length of the transition period which will be necessary
before the full and complete accession of his country to the Common
Market.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
With pleasure. I will begin with
your question about concertation in agricultural matters. My government
is firmly decided to facilitate contacts of all kinds with the countries
concerned in order to reach a concerted policy on this question.
Secondly, as regards the period of transition, Spain accepts a period
of ten years from the date of signature of the treaty of accession.
That is the Spanish Government’s position.
THE PRESIDENT
Question
No. 3 has been tabled by Mr Aano on behalf of Mr Lien. It reads
as follows:
“Mr Lien
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether, having
regard to the fact that Spain is the only member state of the Council
of Europe which has not established diplomatic relations with Israel,
the Spanish Government intends to establish such relations, and
if so, when.”
Would you like to reply, Mr Suarez?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
With the greatest of pleasure,
Mr President. Spain, I need hardly say, has always worked on the
principle of having diplomatic relations with the whole world. So
far as Israel is concerned, the Spanish Government has said more
than once that its intention is to establish such relations once
the conflict in the Near East shows signs of nearing a solution.
That was and still is the position of the Spanish Government as
stated on a number of occasions and which I have the honour of confirming
to you here.
Mr AANO (Norway)
I want to thank
the Head of the Government of Spain for his answer. I just want
to stress this. Israel having had observer status with the Council
of Europe for many years, I hope that Spain will establish diplomatic
relations with that country without unnecessary delay.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I hope so too.
THE PRESIDENT
We come
to the fourth question, by Mr José Manuel Correia, which reads as
follows:
“Mr José Manuel Correia,
Considering the establishment by the Spanish authorities of
nuclear power stations near the Portuguese frontier, using the waters
of international rivers flowing through Spain and Portugal;
Considering the strong reactions of Portuguese public opinion
to this situation;
Considering that a Council of Europe committee of experts
is preparing a draft convention on the protection of international
watercourses against pollution,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether his country
is prepared to co-operate with Portugal in concluding the preparatory
work on this convention or, in the event of the latter’s requiring
considerable time, to envisage the conclusion of a bilateral agreement
with Portugal on protection of the rivers Minho, Douro, Tagus and
Guadiana against all forms of pollution, including pollution from
nuclear power stations.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
If I understand correctly, Mr Correia’s
question is about the possible pollution of the rivers rising in
Spain that flow into Portugal. May I remind you that, as a result
of the excellent relations between ourselves and our friend and
neighbour, Portugal, the relevant committees are already in touch
over this question. I think there were meetings on 15 and 16 December
and that further meetings are to take place in February, under the
chairmanship of the Spanish Under-Secretary of State for the Environment,
at which agreements will be drawn up for submission to both governments.
But, if it will ease your mind, let me say that Spain is perfectly
ready to cooperate with Portugal in a way which will dispel any fears
aroused by these installations.
Mr José Manuel CORREIA (Portugal) (translation)
Mr Prime Minister,
I very much welcome the philosophy behind your reply, the same as
the one which prompted my question, namely, that the integration
of our two countries in a democratic Europe will pave the way to
new fraternal and friendly relations. I should also like to ask
you if, in this spirit and in view of the fact that I am here not
just as a Portuguese Member of Parliament but also as the Member
for a district bordering on Spain, whether the Spanish Government
is prepared to consider in the future that the frontier regions
of our two countries – in several cases the most backward in Portugal
as in Spain – can provide scope for integrated development and mutual
co-operation between our two countries.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I am very glad to reply to this
question as I share to the full the beliefs which prompted it. I
think we might say that while, in the past, Spanish-Portuguese relations
have had little real existence except on paper and were based on
high-flown talk rather than facts, they have recently taken on new
and more specific forms of cooperation and understanding. Starting
from there, I think it will be easy for us to agree on a common
programme for the development of the Spanish-Portuguese frontier
regions.
THE PRESIDENT
The fifth
question, which has been put by Mr Bozzi, is similar to that asked
by Mr Aano for Mr Lien. It reads as follows:
“Mr Bozzi
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether, in the
light of the general interests of the Mediterranean peoples and
the hopes for peace among all the riparian nations, Spain envisages
normalisation of its diplomatic relations with all the countries
of the Mediterranean Basin, and particularly Israel.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
Mr President, I have already replied
to a similar question. I am delighted to repeat once again that
the Spanish Government is waiting for the opportunity of establishing normal
relations with Israel. Our position, which has never varied, is
that as soon as the situation in the Near East shows signs of reaching
a settlement, Spain intends to take the necessary steps to establish
such relations. May I add that that is also the position of the
party I myself lead.
THE PRESIDENT
I hope that
Mr Bozzi is content with that very clear answer. We will continue
with Question No. 6 by Mr Valleix which reads as follows:
“Mr Valleix,
Recalling that the prospect of the European Communities being
enlarged is giving rise to debate in several EEC countries on the
national economies’ ability to stand increased competition from
Mediterranean products;
Considering that, in this respect, the transitional phase,
which is generally agreed at ten years, is of vital importance,
since the success or failure of enlargement depends on the timing
of both customs and non-tariff concessions,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain:
a. how his government views this transitional period and,
in particular, whether it considers that the protection currently
accorded to Spanish industrial products – under the 1970 Agreement,
amended in 1978 – should and can continue throughout the period
in question;
b. more generally, how he intends to steer the growth of the
Spanish economy to forestall increasing structural imbalance due
to excessive differences in wage and social security standards;
c. whether his government has considered the possible effects
of enlargement, either in strengthening the European institutions
or in steering them towards a free trade area.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I think I have already answered
the question about the transitional period. As for the reference
to the dismantling of tariff barriers, I would only add that Spain
does not intend to retain full protective tariffs during the whole
of that period. In other words, we are trying to ensure that the
dismantling takes place similarly in all sectors, though it is not
impossible that we may be obliged, in a few very rare cases, to
make some minor exceptions to this general rule. The second part
of the question refers to the growth of the Spanish economy. Obviously,
once the transitional period is over and Spain has become part of
the European Community, her economic situation will not differ so
greatly from that of most other Community members. At the moment,
it is true that our rate of inflation is perhaps twice that of the
rest of Europe but it is also true that, if the measures for 1979
contained in the government’s projected economic programme, which has
the support of nearly all the political parties, produce their full
effect the rate of inflation will be reduced sufficiently to put
Spain on the same footing as the rest of the Community. I am certain
that, by the time Spain has finally become a full member of the
European Economic Community, her economy will have reached the same
average level as those of its other members.
THE PRESIDENT
I ought
to point out to the President of the Government of Spain that these
questions were, of course, put down in writing before the Assembly
could note the most interesting statement which the President has
made, so he is quite right when he says that some of the answers
have already been given. On the other hand, some members like to
go into a little more detail.
Perhaps Mr Valleix wishes to ask a supplementary question?
Mr VALLEIX (France) (translation)
I should like
to say to the Prime Minister of Spain that we wish every good fortune
to the Spanish democracy.
In the question which I ventured to put to him, I asked how
the Spanish Government sees the future if the Community is enlarged.
Does he consider that this enlargement will strengthen the European
institution or on the contrary that it carries risks which we must
try to avoid, in particular the danger that this institution will develop
into a free-trade area, with the slackening off that this development
would entail?
THE PRESIDENT
Mr Suarez,
would you like to reply to Mr Valleix’s supplementary question?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
With much pleasure, Mr President.
Obviously, I must speak plainly. If I had honestly believed that
the accession of Portugal, Greece and Spain to Europe and the European
Economic Community would have resulted, directly or indirectly in
weakening Community institutions, I promise you that we should never
have applied to enter. My reply is therefore a conditional but also
an honest one. I am absolutely certain that the Community will be
strengthened significantly by the entry of three new members. The
countries you are admitting are Mediterranean countries; countries,
if I may say so, possessing great imaginative powers and truly desirous
of co-operating in the building of Europe. That, to my mind, offers
a guarantee that their entry will genuinely strengthen the Economic
Community. If not, we should not have applied to join it.
THE PRESIDENT
We now come
to Question No. 7 by Mr Pignion, which reads as follows:
“Mr Pignion,
Recalling the lively interest shown by the Parliamentary Assembly
of the Council of Europe in relations between central and local
authorities and in the role played by decentralisation in the renewal
of European democracy;
Considering the special interest of Spain’s experience in
this field, since several regions in that country have, in the last
fifteen months, been accorded semi-autonomous status,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he can
draw the first lessons from this experience and indicate the extent
to which the new institutions have affected, firstly relations with
the central authorities and, secondly, the daily lives of the inhabitants
of these regions.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
This question strikes me as particularly
complex, Mr President, since it relates both to Europe and to Spain.
I do not feel sufficiently well informed, Ladies and Gentlemen,
to be able to explain how far a regionalisation policy in Europe
may or may not be of importance. What I can explain to you is Spain’s
own attitude to regionalisation. Our Constitution makes definite
provision for a degree of self-government for all the country’s
regions, subject always to the indissoluble unity of the Spanish
nation as a whole. We believe this responds both to the wishes of
the many Spanish regions with all their undoubted differences and
also to the need to establish the technical structure of a modem
state. I regard it as extremely valuable for the public to be given
as large a share as possible in technical, political and administrative
decision-making; it is also a method that enables problems to be
dealt with more rapidly and brings members of the public into closer
touch with matters that concern them directly in their own local environment.
Spain’s experience here is of recent date only and our past does
not suggest any strikingly successful solutions. But the system
of pre-autonomy we have instituted has made it possible for us to
try out, so to speak, various possibilities and these will be consolidated
once the responsibilities of the autonomous Spanish regions have
been set out in detail in their respective statutes. The problem
is both difficult and complex but we feel that all the political
parties are united in their determination to make sure the system
works and that, without distorting the nation’s economic or political
life and without endangering its unity, it will make the inhabitants
of each of the Spanish regions and the members of each of the country’s
various nationalities responsible for their own destiny.
Mr PIGNION (France) (translation)
I should simply
like to say to the Spanish Prime Minister that his reply, although
not perfect, as he said himself, bears witness to the imaginative
power of this young democracy. We the Representatives of the old
democracies shall follow with enormous interest the development
of this problem of regionalisation and pre-autonomy. I thank him
most warmly for his reply.
THE PRESIDENT
We come
now to Question No. 8 by Mr Boucheny. We are looking far over the
Atlantic now, Mr President. The question reads as follows:
“Mr Boucheny
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether the presence
of Spain in the Council of Europe is likely to favour the initiatives
taken by several parliamentarians in the Council for the restoration
of liberties in South America, the freeing of political prisoners
(including a number of parliamentarians) and the granting of amnesty.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
If I may say so, Mr President,
I think the question was what contribution the new democratic Spain
could make towards the enforcement and exercise of democratic freedoms
in the Spanish-American continent. First, I must say I think it
is very difficult to export formulas applicable in Spain to a different
international context. I should like to be able to say proudly that
every Spanish formula could be successfully exported to any country
in the world that wanted to exchange dictatorship for democracy.
But, to speak honestly and realistically, I must say that our political
transformation in Spain took place – as I had the honour of explaining
just now – in a political, economic and social context peculiar
to Spain and that it is difficult to apply the same measures in
other economic, social and cultural circumstances. So, by and large,
in any country genuinely desirous of exchanging an authoritarian
for a democratic regime, the Spanish formula can be useful but only,
I think, as a gesture, a demonstration that such a transformation
can be achieved without a previous revolution and with a minimum
of social, political and economic upheaval; but actually to export
the formula itself is difficult. On the other hand, it is my hope
that, throughout the whole Spanish-American continent with which
Spain has very deep and close ties, some real efforts will be made
for the countries which today are governed by dictatorships to recover
their freedom. Spain has for some time been trying to forward this
by every means at her disposal, which include the visits to Latin
America paid by their Majesties the King and Queen of Spain, and
other visits by myself, several members of the government, and the
leaders of the other Spanish political parties. I believe that this
assiduous and continuing co-operation with all the Latin American
states can and should, at the right moment, bear fruit.
Mr BOUCHENY (France) (translation)
Mr Prime Minister,
may I thank you for replying so fully to my question concerning your
declaration on the links between Spain, Latin civilisation and the
other side of the Atlantic.
My object in putting this question was to ask you whether
the Spanish parliamentarians sitting in this Chamber, who know the
problems of South America well and who know how much some of the
people there are suffering – parliamentarians are in prison, and
recently in Nicaragua people were massacred with French, American, English
and West German arms – will help those of us in this Assembly who
do not want the question of human rights to be selective, but want
them to apply to all who suffer and are the victims of the policy
of certain countries.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I have listened with pleasure
to Mr Boucheny’s remarks but he has put a question to which I find
it very difficult to reply. I can give no guarantee that the Spanish parliamentarians
will adopt any given line of behaviour in this Assembly except perhaps,
to a certain extent, in the case of members of my own party. What
I am absolutely certain of is that all the Spanish parliamentarians present
here are ardent supporters of human rights. That, yes, I can guarantee.
I can also promise that their support for the proclamation and defence
of human rights will relate to all the countries mentioned by Mr Boucheny
because that is something we owe to ourselves. Their support will
not be given on any selective basis but will apply to every continent,
whatever the place or country concerned. That is all I have to say.
THE PRESIDENT
Question
No. 9 is also from Mr Boucheny. It reads as follows:
“Mr Boucheny
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain what action the
Spanish Government intends to take to establish a peaceful, denuclearised
zone in the Mediterranean and to promote co-operation between the
riparian countries.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
Among other points which I mentioned
in my earlier speech, as showing the main options open to the Spanish
Government in the Mediterranean, I naturally included the creation
of a security force by the coastal states and, in reply to the present
question, I would say that we, the Spanish Government, are of course
in favour of a reduction in the military potential, both conventional
and nuclear, of the Mediterranean area. If we could be absolutely
sure that the nuclear powers were not restricting their aims to
the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, if we could be absolutely
sure that their ultimate objective was the abolition of their own
nuclear weapons, then we could safely talk about the need to create
a denuclearised zone. But I feel, if I may say so, that it would
show a certain naivety on my part to believe in the possibility
of creating a denuclearised zone in any given part of the world
with this terrifying nuclear arms race going on all round us. That
is all I can say in reply to the question. Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT (translation)
Mr Boucheny
appears to be satisfied with your reply, Mr Prime Minister. Mr Carvalhas has
tabled three questions. I will read them in order.
Question No. 10 reads
as follows:
“Mr Carvalhas,
Recalling that the Treaty on Friendship and Cooperation between
Portugal and Spain has been welcomed and ratified by the four parliamentary
groups in the Assembly of the Republic of Portugal, who regard it
as important for the development of relations on a new basis between
Portugal and Spain,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain how he views this
question and what he sees as the practical prospects for the development
of co-operation between the two countries.”
Question No. 11:
“Mr Carvalhas,
Considering that the Spanish energy plan provides for the
completion by 1987 of seven nuclear power stations, on which work
has already begun, and of three others from a total of eight for
which preliminary authorisation has already been granted,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether the Sayago
plant is one of the three power stations which are to be completed
in 1987.”
Question No. 12:
“Mr Carvalhas
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether the Spanish
authorities are prepared to include water-quality protection (thermic,
chemical and radioactive pollution) on the agenda for meetings of
the Joint Commission set up by Portugal and Spain to regulate the
use and development of international stretches of the Minho, Lima,
Tagus and Guadiana rivers and their tributaries.”
Do you wish to take together Questions 10,11 and 12 put by
Mr Carvalhas, or would you prefer to deal with them separately?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
If the President will allow me,
I will reply to all three questions together. The first, on the
Treaty of Friendship and Co-operation we have signed with Portugal
and the prospects for the future, I think I have answered in part
already in my reply to Mr Carvalhas’ Portuguese colleague. The Spanish
Government and, I think, indeed I am sure, the Portuguese Government
also are looking forward to our relations improving and developing
in every sector: technological, cultural, economic and social. This
common determination has found expression in the working parties
provided for in the treaty and I believe the results will be spectacular.
As for the power stations, I think I have already said that a meeting
is to take place shortly to study the danger of pollution from Spain’s
projected power stations for the rivers flowing into Portugal. So
far as the Sayago plant is concerned I can say definitely that its
construction has not yet been approved. Consequently, several of
the questions you have raised still remain to be dealt with. They
can and must be dealt with in the discussions which have already
begun between our two countries. Is there another question? I think
I have replied to all three.
THE PRESIDENT (translation)
The next
question is by Lord Morris. It reads as follows:
“Lord Morris
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain:
a. what the present state of affairs is with regard to the
continuing negotiations between the Government of His Majesty the
King of Spain and Her Majesty’s Government on matters of mutual
interest;
b. whether he is satisfied with their progress;
c. and whether he is satisfied with Her Majesty’s Government’s
co-operation and initiatives in the course of these negotiations.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
The relations between Spain and
Great Britain are, I need hardly say, both friendly and cordial
and it is my firm belief that we shall be devoting more and more attention
to studying the problems of concern to us both. If I am asked whether
or not I personally, as Head of the Government, am satisfied with
the progress made in these discussions, my reply is that I am. If
I am asked whether I am completely satisfied my reply is: not yet.
There is of course one cause of friction in Spanish-British relations
of which it is hardly necessary for me to remind you, and that is
Gibraltar. We feel that it ought to be possible to find a solution.
That is what the United Nations have ordered and we hope that, against
the background of the preliminary conversations now taking place,
the British Government will make an effort to approach the problem
in a realistic spirit. It seems to us that there is a vast range
of possible solutions which would respect the legitimate interests
of all concerned – the interests, that is, of Great Britain, Spain
and the Gibraltarians themselves – more especially in view of the
Spanish constitutional framework, which contains provision for a
system of autonomous communities which would offer the people of
Gibraltar complete protection for their legitimate rights.
Lord MORRIS (United Kingdom)
I wish
only to thank the Prime Minister for his very comprehensive and,
if I may say so most humbly, very polished parliamentary performance. (Murmurs of approval)
THE PRESIDENT
We come
now to Question No. 14 put by Mr Pires, which is very similar to
Question No. 10 from Mr Carvalhas. It reads as follows:
“Mr Pires,
Recalling that democratic Portugal and Spain have already
concluded a general agreement on cooperation and a commercial agreement;
Recalling that, in this connection, some regard the action
taken as excessive, while others regard it as too cautious,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain what he thinks
of the development of co-operation between the two countries, with
particular reference to their European aspirations.”
Does the President wish to add something?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
Certainly, but as a matter of
courtesy I would like all the same to say a few words to Mr Pires.
It is true that I have already replied to the questions he has put
but they refer, I think, specifically to co-operation in the Iberian
peninsula in the context of our move towards Europe. As well as
a common frontier of 800 kilometres, Spain and Portugal also, I
think, share a common desire to preserve their independence and
sovereignty; they also have numerous common problems and interests. Logically,
we can and ought to deal with these in a spirit of co-operation
and give and take, while at the same time respecting absolutely
the sovereign powers of each country. One of our problems is our
entry into Europe. The Portuguese are certainly aware of the extent
of Spain’s contribution to their own objective. It is a common objective.
We are two countries which, besides being meant to reach an understanding,
would, if we were quite witless, still be condemned to do so by
force of circumstances.
Mr PIRES (Portugal) (translation)
Thank you, Mr Prime
Minister, for replying to the third version of the same question.
I should like to add this brief question: do you think that the
fact that Portugal belongs to NATO and that Spain is not a member
of that organisation is a problem for security and co-operation
in the Iberian peninsula?
Do you believe that Portugal has a more Atlantic outlook and
that Spain has a more Mediterranean one on the problems of the peninsula
and that this might pose a problem for co-operation and security
in the Iberian peninsula?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
My reply is brief: no problem.
THE PRESIDENT
I hope that
for the sake of time, Mr Pires is content with that answer and that
we may now continue with Question No. 15, put by Mr Mangelschots,
which reads as follows:
“Mr Mangelschots,
Observing that four actors in the Els Joglars company are
still prisoners and three others in exile for no other reason but
that the pantomime group had parodied military service in a play
called La Torna,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he does
not think, since he sets great store by respect for human rights,
that the time has come to release these prisoners and allow those
in exile to return to their homeland.”
Question No. 16, which was also tabled by Mr Mangelschots,
reads as follows:
“Mr Mangelschots,
Considering that the visit to the Council of Europe of the
Head of the Spanish Government might afford European parliamentarians
an opportunity to express their anticipation that Spain would align
itself with the position of the EEC member countries by establishing
its relations with Israel on a regular basis;
Observing that the discrepancy between the stated policy of
Spain as regards the universality of its relations with the nations
of the world and the absence of any relations with Israel, members
of whose parliament have been sitting in the Assembly of the Council
of Europe as observers for twenty-five years,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he cares
to express his position in regard to this question.”
I ask Mr Suarez to answer Question No. 15.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
If this question refers to the
position of certain persons who were prosecuted in Spain following
a theatrical performance, I imagine the reference is to the Els
Joglars company. Almost every country, let me point out, has regulations
providing for sanctions against behaviour threatening the honour
or dignity of individuals or institutions. The same is naturally
true of Spain, though possibly with some differences due to the
fact that we have not yet modified all our legislation along the
lines to be expected from a fully democratic Constitution. I think
it is common knowledge, too, that the persons imprisoned in this
particular case have been released and that a Bill for the modification
of the Military Code has been tabled and will be examined by the
next Parliament. The Bill provides that cases of this kind, in which persons
are accused of offences covered by general legislation, will be
heard by the ordinary courts. That is all I can say in reply to
the question. Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT
Has Mr Mangelschots
a supplementary question?... No?... Mr Mangelschots has no supplementary
questions; he is content with your answer, Mr President, and he
also agrees that he has received an answer to his Question No. 16.
Therefore we come to Question No. 17 by Mr Coutsocheras, reading
as follows:
“Mr Coutsocheras
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he considers
it desirable to institute in Spain an international honour in memory
of Federico Garcia Lorca, to be awarded annually to a poet whose
works are animated by the same spirit as those of Lorca and display
a similar championship of human rights.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
The great merit of Garcia Lorca’s
work seems to me, Mr Coutsocheras, Ladies and Gentlemen, that it
is part of the heritage of the whole Spanish people. It is also part
of the heritage of the whole of humanity because it transcends all
frontiers. That, I think, is where the fundamental importance of
his work lies. The institution of a literary award seems to me quite
irrelevant to his personality and writings. I believe in any case
– the Spanish Representatives here will correct me if I am wrong –
but I believe that a literary prize already exists in Granada; it
is known as the Federico Garcia Lorca Prize and is awarded, I think,
by Granada University. It is a poetry prize. As to instituting an
award in the sense implied by the Representative (of Greece, I would
say that the responsibility for doing so belongs ultimately to the
Spanish cultural organisations. I do not think that culture can
be directed by the state. All that the latter can do is to provide
a stimulus. Culture has its own life and must follow its own paths.
Mr COUTSOCHERAS (Greece) (translation)
Thank you, Mr Prime
Minister, for your reply.
As you know, Federico Garcia Lorca, apart from being a great
poet, fought and suffered for the rights of man. In honouring the
memory of this poet and hero, we should like to remind institutions
and citizens of their duty to fight for the Prometheus Bound in.
Cyprus and elsewhere. That is why I have submitted this idea to
you.
My supplementary question is as follows: I refer to the decision
of the Sub-committee of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, when it met
in Athens, to proclaim the Mediterranean the “Sea of Civilisation”.
This is a way of calling the attention of our countries to
the need to protect this sea against the pollution by which it is
affected and to prevent the aquatic plundering of antiquities and
works of art. Do you agree, Mr Prime Minister, with the decision
to call the Mediterranean the “Sea of Civilisation”?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
In my humble opinion, Mr Coutsocheras,
long before the Inter-Parliamentary Union thought of giving it the
name, the facts of history showed the Mediterranean to be the “Sea
of Civilisation”. So it seems to me of no importance to this Assembly
that I should state whether or not I am in favour of the name. Obviously
I am.
THE PRESIDENT
I had hoped
that Mr Coutsocheras would ask his question in poetry, because he
is a poet. (Laughter)
We now come to Question No. 18, which is asked by Mr Sénés,
who has a considerable interest in the wine-growing regions of Bordeaux,
Champagne, the Loire and Burgundy. His question is as follows:
“Mr Sénés,
Referring to the position of the French Socialist Party with
regard to Spain’s entry into the EEC, which is a cause of considerable
concern to the French economy and in particular to the wine-growers
and fruit and vegetable farmers of the south;
Observing that in such circumstances the French Socialists
could not wholly endorse the step unless Spain undertakes to apply
legal, taxation, social and economic measures that would place Spanish
producers on the same footing as those of France;
Anxious to reassure the workers of southern France on this
point,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether his government
is making plans to bring about this harmonisation.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
That is a worry which we Spaniards
share. My answer is that Spain’s entry into the Communities will
not cause any prejudice to French Mediterranean products. That is
particularly true of wine and horticultural products, for two reasons
both of which I think are sufficiently weighty. In the first place,
Spain is willing, throughout the transitional period, to take all
necessary steps to prevent any sudden distortion of the markets,
in return for similar measures by France. In the second place, I do
not think that our products – or at least those mentioned – are
competitive and they cannot in any case be increased to any significant
extent because almost all the land on which they are grown has already
attained its maximum productivity. Thirdly, in view of the question’s
explicit or implicit concern over Spanish lower wage-levels and
production costs, may I remind you that over the past few years
the rise in both has been much the same in Spain as in other European
countries. But because I know that France is worried about the matter,
I should like to say that while we are naturally concerned about
our own products, we are concerned about French products as well
and we shall make every effort to arrive at formulas which reconcile
the interests of both sides.
Mr SÉNÈS (France) (translation)
Mr Prime Minister,
I should first like to put the record straight. I am not from Bordeaux, Burgundy
or Champagne, I come from the south, which is the biggest wine-producing
region in the world, ordinary table wine, for which the entry of
Spain into the Common Market does create problems, and serious problems.
I thank you, Mr Prime Minister, and I note your reply. But
for me it is incomplete. Let me say that I am a parliamentarian
who is a bit of a specialist. I should simply like to insist on
the need for certain harmonisation measures, which must be possible,
and I would ask you, Mr Prime Minister, to try on your side, within
the Spanish Government, to expedite the implementation of such measures,
in order to avoid the understandable reactions of the French producers,
who are after all only defending, in our region, the right of family
holdings to survive and nothing else. Thank you, Mr Prime Minister.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
This last is a question to which
I am very much alive. We shall naturally defend our own rights and
we ought to try in every way to understand the rights of others.
I said as much in my first reply to Mr Sénés. Spain’s effort will
consist in trying to gain a complete picture of the problems that
her entry into the Community will raise for one of France’s regions
as well as for every other European country. What I ask in return
is that such regions and countries should try to understand the
problems that Spain’s entry raises for the Spaniards themselves.
As I am sure that that is what will happen. I feel we ought to make
a really serious effort – and Spain is ready to do so – to overcome
the initial difficulties and problems that may arise in the short
term in this or that agricultural or industrial sector, because
I really do believe, as I think your own technical knowledge will
tell you, that Spanish entry will benefit agricultural production
in the whole of the Mediterranean area. I have no doubts on the
matter but on our side we shall naturally seek every means of reconciling
the interests of French farmers, Spanish farmers and European farmers,
nor shall we spare any effort in this task.
THE PRESIDENT
The next
question is from Mr Dejardin.
Question No. 19 reads as follows:
“Mr Dejardin,
Considering that the Spanish press, citing government sources,
has referred to Belgian complicity with the ETA, complaining, in
particular, that automatic weapons of Belgian manufacture have been
found in the possession of Basque terrorists and that the latter
have attended training camps in Belgium – accusations which are
serious and which would be inexcusable unless supported by further
information;
Believing that the arms trade is essentially immoral, since
arms dealers, even at the price of innocent blood, are interested
only in profit, and that anyone can acquire arms of any sort, even
arms of Belgian manufacture, although the Belgian Government only
grants licences for the export of arms to regularly constituted governments,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he is prepared:
a. either to dissociate himself solemnly from these accusations,
considered defamatory by public opinion in Belgium, or to confirm
them with proof, thus helping Belgian parliamentarians to take effective countermeasures;
b. to encourage effective co-operation between the relevant
police authorities in Spain and their counterparts in Belgium in
the hunt for terrorists, whoever they may be, and their possible
supporters in Belgium, thus providing a counterweight to the former
sinister co-operation between various police forces in the hunt
for political opponents of the fascist regime under which the Spanish
people suffered for forty years.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I am sorry, Mr President, but
I do not altogether recollect the question. That is obviously my
own fault. I think it said that the Spanish press had carried a
story alleging that an arms traffic was going on between Belgium
and the ETA, the terrorist organisation active in Spain. That is
a very serious accusation. The story may well have appeared in the
Spanish press, as in the Belgian, but that in no way implies that
the Spanish Government accepts its veracity, still less that we
have any cause to reproach or criticise the Belgian authorities.
We are quite certain that the Belgian authorities are not in any
way implicated in the affair. Mr Dejardin can set his mind at rest
on that point. We have no suspicions of any kind about the Belgian
Government’s behaviour. If we had had any such suspicions, we should
of course have said so straight out, but we have no reason to suppose
for a moment that the Belgian Government is in any way concerned
in this arms traffic. That is all.
Mr DEJARDIN (Belgium) (translation)
I am very pleased
by the reply which the Prime Minister of Spain has just made publicly,
since it will no doubt put an end to certain rumours.
In the second part of my question, I asked his opinion on
effective co-operation between the Spanish police and the Belgian
police in the search for terrorists and any accomplices they may
have in Belgium. This would make honourable amends for the previous
sinister co-operation between police services, who hunted down the political
opponents of the fascist regime from which the Spanish people suffered
for forty years.
Beyond such specific co-operation, I venture to hope, Mr Prime
Minister, that the co-operative attitude which you displayed in
your introductory speech will make it possible at last to settle
the problem of the presence in Spain of Nazi war criminals, one
of them a Belgian who, thirty-three years after, is still enjoying
the fruits of his crimes.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I regard that as a very serious
accusation. It is a serious matter to allege that there is a criminal
living in Spain who is still profiting from his crimes. If a court
makes application for him to be handed over, the Spanish Government
will naturally transmit such application to the judicial authorities
who will decide the action to be taken. So far as I am concerned,
I know nothing of the matter and your question has taken me by surprise.
When you speak of co-operation between the Spanish and Belgian police
in the hunt for terrorists I imagine you are speaking of terrorists
wherever they may be, in Belgium or elsewhere. I have noted what
you say and I will willingly do all I can to see that Spanish police authorities
are enabled to get into touch with their Belgian colleagues so as
to agree on methods of co-operation. That is all I can say.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you,
Mr President. Question No. 20 is on the Canfranc trans-Pyrenean
railway line – something quite different. It reads as follows:
“Mr Baeza Martos,
Referring to Recommendation 826 on recent developments concerning
trunk communications and regional planning in Europe, adopted by
the Assembly in January 1978,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he can
tell the Assembly what progress has been made with negotiations
between the Spanish and French authorities on reopening the Canfranc
trans-Pyrenean railway line, a project from which the Spanish regions
of Aragon and Valencia have much to hope.”
Will you reply, Mr Suarez?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I will certainly reply to this
question which I think comes from Mr Baeza Martos. The Spanish Government
has had several meetings on the matter recently and it is dealt
with at some length in recommendations addressed to the Spanish
and French Governments. The Spanish Government is in favour of reopening
this line and is now awaiting the results of the necessary investigations
and the contacts with the competent French authorities to take a
decision as to its viability. But let me say at once that the government
is in favour of this additional line of communication.
Mr BAEZA MARTOS (Spain) (translation)
I thank the Prime
Minister for his reply, which will reassure many of our compatriots
from Aragon and Valencia.
THE PRESIDENT
Is Mr Luptowits
in agreement with me that his question has been answered by the President?
His question is as follows:
“Mr Luptowits,
Considering the close historical and linguistic ties between
Spain and Latin America,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain what role democratic
Spain can play in providing an example for Latin America.”
Would Mr Luptowits like to ask an additional question?
Mr LUPTOWITS (Austria) (translation)
Thank you, Mr President.
The answer was what I had expected.
THE PRESIDENT
I am grateful,
because we can now pass to Question No. 22, which has also been mentioned
by the President – the promotion and consolidation of stability
in the Mediterranean area. It reads as follows:
“Mr Calamandrei
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain how Spain can help,
particularly in her relations with existing blocs and alliances,
to prevent disturbance of the international balance and to promote
and consolidate stability in the Mediterranean region.”
Would Mr Calamandrei like to ask a supplementary question?...
Mr CALAMANDREI (Italy) (translation)
If the Head of
Government of Spain considers that he has nothing to add to his opening
statement on this subject of balance and stability in the Mediterranean
region, I will certainly not press him to do so. It is up to him
to decide.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
I think I have already explained
my views on that matter in my earlier statement, Mr President.
THE PRESIDENT
We now come
to Question No. 23 tabled by Mr Ahrens. It reads as follows:
“Mr Ahrens,
Noting that the Spanish Constitution, which has just been
approved by a.very large majority of the Spanish people, is the
most up-to-date Constitution of any Council of Europe member state
and that it contains a special chapter on local government, emphasising
the special role which local authorities and provinces have to play in
the democratic construction of the Spanish state,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain:
a. why local elections were not held immediately after the
promulgation of the Constitution, but only after the parliamentary
elections;
b. when local elections are to be held and whether the local
authority structures established by the old regime will be replaced
by new structures based on the result of these democratic elections.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
That is an interesting question
showing considerable concern over Spain’s internal problems on matters
as specific as her municipal elections. The law relating to the
system of local government which is now in force in Spain was adopted
by the present Parliament – or, rather, by the Parliament which
has just ended with the calling of a general election. That law,
which may be said to have approved the whole network of legislation
relating to local government, provides for municipal elections to
take place within a fixed period from the entry into force of the
Constitution. If I remember rightly, the period is one of ninety
days and the elections will certainly be held within that time as
laid down by the law. In the second place, under the eighth addendum
to the Constitution the current Head of the Government had the right
to opt, within a certain fixed period, for either a vote of confidence
or a general election. Since, under the Constitution, the period
between the dissolution of Parliament and the general election may
not exceed sixty days, by opting for a general election he made
it necessary for the latter to be held before the municipal elections.
But, independently of this somewhat more complicated issue arising
from the legal texts, the law also gave the Head of the Government
the right to hold the municipal elections either within a period
not exceeding that laid down by law once the Constitution had come
into force, or within the period laid down in the Constitution itself.
Naturally, I opted for the solution which suited me best within
the powers allowed me, that being, I think, elementary practice
in any democratic political organisation. As to when we are going
to change the former municipal structure, the answer is, obviously,
after the municipal elections. The logical result of those elections,
due to take place in Spain on 3 April next, will of course be a
complete change in the membership of the local councils and provincial
assemblies.
Mr AHRENS (Federal Republic of Germany) (translation)
Mr President,
thank you very much for your most frank answer. You can see from
the question the keen interest the members of this House take in
developments in Spain. This must gratify you.
I have only one short additional question. As you doubtless
know, there are numerous twinning agreements between the towns and
municipalities of the member states of the Council of Europe. The
sole aim of these pairings is to promote understanding among our
nations, especially among the young people. I know from many talks
with towns and municipalities not only in Germany but also in other
states, that they wish to establish contact as soon as possible
with Spanish towns. My question is: will your government encourage
such approaches?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
So far as the government can promote
such contacts it will obviously do so, but may I remind you that
responsibility for decisions of this kind lies with the local councils and
provincial assemblies. However, I think I may say that, whatever
the results of the elections on 3 April, all political parties will
be united in wishing to promote such meetings. They are useful for
the town involved, for the countries in which they are situated
and, I believe, for the whole community as well. Whatever can be
done by the government to foster this kind of initiative, subject
always to the autonomy granted to local councils and provincial
assemblies, we shall of course gladly do.
THE PRESIDENT
We come
to Question No. 24 by Mr Gessner, which reads as follows:
“Mr Gessner
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether the overcoming
of dictatorship in Spain has led to effective consequences with
regard to the staff of the police apparatus.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
That is a difficult question which
may take some time to answer. I would ask for the indulgence of
Representatives as I would like to explain why no political purge
of any kind is taking place in Spain. The reason is to be found
in the same philosophy of reform I had the honour of explaining
to you just now. We felt the new Constitution ought not to exclude
any Spaniard, no matter what ideology he had originally professed.
Reform in Spain had to look only to the future and turn its back
on the past. That is why there has been no purge of the civil servants
or police in any state institution. I sincerely believe that the
Spanish security forces have made a praiseworthy effort to enter
into the new dimensions of the Spanish state; that is to say, a
democratic state in which their main duty is to guarantee the free
exercise of civil liberties and hence the safety of the public.
I think their efforts deserve recognition. At the same time, the
government has tried, by various parliamentary Bills and other minor
measures taken by successive Councils of Ministers, to improve the
professional character of the security forces, to make them into
an integral part of a democratic state, and to give them further
training in methods of crime investigation, detection and prevention,
at a moment when criminal methods are becoming daily more technical
and terrorism daily more rampant. This reply may not strike members
of the public or victims of aggression as wholly satisfactory, but
it is true in so far as the training and professional character
of these forces is concerned and, I repeat, their standards are
constantly improving. With regard to their still being commanded
by the same persons as before, I do think there have been considerable
changes over the past year. In the first place, more than half the
heads of departments have been retired and the average age of the
senior officers has come down. Secondly, provided that the officers
who remain act within the spirit of the Constitution and are scrupulous
in their observance of democratic processes and the performance
of their own duties, there is no reason to dismiss them. Because,
in the midst of a political evolution like the one taking place
in my country, it is essential to be consistent and, regardless
of what he may have thought or done in the past, any person who
co-operates actively in the defence of democratic institutions deserves
the respect of all Spaniards.
THE PRESIDENT (translation)
May I assume
that Mr Gessner is satisfied, so that the other questions can be
answered before 6 o’clock?
Mr GESSNER (Federal Republic of Germany) (translation)
I
only wished to convey to the President of the Spanish Government
that I wish him well in his endeavours. I think that it is exceptionally
important for the development of democracy in Spain that there is
not only a democratic government but also a state machinery that
staunchly supports democracy. That was the background to my question.
THE PRESIDENT
We come
next to Question No. 25 from Sir John Rodgers, which is as follows:
“Sir John Rodgers
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain if Spain, which
does not at present belong to any existing military or political
alliance, in the context of its attempts to achieve closer political
and economic links with other democratic European states, wishes
for closer military co-operation with these states.”
Mr Suarez, will you reply to this question?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
It gives me much pleasure to reply
to that question, Mr President. I am asked whether Spain, which
belongs to no alliance, can or cannot intensify her military co-operation
with the other states of Western Europe. We already cooperate militarily
to some extent with some European countries, such as Portugal and
France. Naturally, we can increase military cooperation with other European
democracies and, as I said when I had the honour of addressing you,
we are also co-operating with the Western world as a whole through
the Treaty of Friendship and Co-operation that we signed in 1976
with the United States. If there is a reference, actual or implied,
to the Atlantic Alliance in the question, I am glad to reply to
that as well by explaining the position of the Spanish Government
and of my own party. The government does not regard the question
of Spain’s ultimate entry to NATO as an urgent one and, so far as can
be seen, it will involve far-reaching discussion in the Spanish
Parliament. In our view, the decision must be a joint one by all
the major Spanish political parties; otherwise, it could have no
practical effect. My government and my party are in favour of joining
the Alliance but we do not think the decision is a matter of urgency
or that it is one that can be imposed. There must be a parliamentary
debate and we must seek the co-operation of the other parties; then,
at the right time, should matters turn out that way, we will study
the means by which entry can be achieved. But, I repeat, Spain is
already participating in the defence of the Western world through
her Treaty of Friendship and Co-operation with the United States.
Sir John RODGERS (United Kingdom)
I am very
grateful to the Head of the Government of Spain for his answer.
I agree with him that there is no urgent need at the moment for
Spain to contemplate joining the NATO nations, but since, as he
has said, Spain has had a treaty with the United States of America
since 1976, I hope that some time in the not too distant future
he will consider closer relationships with the nations of NATO.
THE PRESIDENT
I suggest
that we combine Question No. 26 from Mr Faulds and Question No. 27
from Mrs von Bothmer because both relate to good relations with
the Arab world and the new Arab dialogue. I will read them.
“Question No. 26:
Mr Faulds
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether it is not
time that the European nations, in their own interests and in view
of the need for good relations with the Arab world, recognised the
Palestinian Liberation Organisation, which has received world-wide
recognition as the representative of the dispossessed Palestinian people.”
“Question No. 27:
Mrs von Bothmer
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he is aware
of the fact that the Arab governments are disappointed at the lack
of political progress of the Euro-Arab dialogue and at the lack
of response from the European governments to their wish for closer
co-operation in our fields.”
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
In reply to Mr Faulds’ question
on Spain’s relations with the Palestine Liberation Organisation
my answer must be that, legally, Spain can have diplomatic relations
only with other states. However, by her support in the United Nations
for recognition of the PLO as the legitimate representative of the
Palestinian people, and her official recognition of the PLO Bureau
in Madrid, Spain has made her position in the matter clear. Our
relations with the Bureau are also excellent. As to whether it would be
in their own interests for the European countries to have a closer
relationship with the Arab world, I am hardly best qualified to
say what those countries should or should not do: but I can tell
you what Spain, which has excellent relations with the Arab world,
is doing. We think that to promote Europe’s relations with that
world would be all to the good and would make a significant contribution
to peace and détente. In any case, I should be glad to see the European
countries follow Spain’s example and, for reasons of state, improve
and tighten their links with the Arab world.
Mr FAULDS (United Kingdom)
I would
like to ask the President whether he would not agree that there
can be no prospect of peace in the Middle East, which is going to
affect the future of Europe very certainly, and larger parts of
the world, until Palestinians of the occupied territories and the
Palestinians of the diaspora, those who have been dispersed from
their territories, are granted, perhaps by international pressure
on Israel, the establishment of their own state? As a rider to that,
would the President consider delaying recognition of Israel until
perhaps the Israelis recognise an independent state of Palestine?
Mrs von BOTHMER (Federal Republic of Germany) (translation)
Mr President,
I have already heard part of the answer but I would be interested
to have a plainer reply as to whether you consider the dialogue
between the European and Arab countries a good way of improving
not only economic but also political relations between these countries.
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
That is certainly how I see the
question myself. Quite apart from economic or industrial relations
which could exist, or which exist already, with the European countries,
I think, from the political point of view, that it would be a great
help towards détente and a peaceful solution of the Middle East’s
problems. That is my firm belief. But I am being reminded that I
have not answered your question and I apologise. One constant element
in the Spanish position is that any settlement must involve – in
addition to other considerations such as the application of United
Nations Resolution 338 and allied resolutions – must involve recognition
of the rights and nationhood of the Palestinian people. If I understood
it aright, your question exactly describes the Spanish Government’s
position as to the need to recognise the rights and nationhood of
the Palestinians and to give them a state.
THE PRESIDENT
We come
to the last question, No. 28, from Mr Yanez-Barnuevo, which reads
as follows:
“Mr Yanez-Barnuevo,
Considering that the timely invitation to Spain, in the person
of its Head of Government, to address the Parliamentary Assembly
of the Council of Europe, was issued before the legislative elections
in Spain, to be held on 1 March, were announced;
Considering that the previous Spanish Parliament was dissolved
on 29 December 1978,
To ask the Head of the Government of Spain whether he does
not consider that political prudence should have led him to postpone
his visit to the Council of Europe, thus ensuring that this visit
did not coincide with the Spanish election campaign, which has already
begun.”
An interesting question, Mr President!
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
Obviously, I did not postpone
it. I would point out to Mr Yanez-Barnuevo that the Council’s invitation
arrived, if I remember rightly, on 27 September and I accepted it
at once. The dissolution of Parliament and the calling of the general
election took place later. Of course, my visit can be interpreted
as a piece of electioneering even if it was settled long before
the date of the election. But I also promised the Spanish people,
on television, the day Parliament was dissolved, that we would continue
to govern the country until the election and to govern includes
keeping all engagements, both at home and abroad. It may be that
my visit here will bring electoral advantages for myself and my
party; but it is equally true for both of us that the day-to-day
exercise of power during an election period brings numerous disadvantages
as well and I think the two balance out. But I insist, in any case,
that I have not the slightest intention of using this visit to gain
any electoral advantage and I can state categorically that it was
not of my seeking. But even if it had been, I do not think there
would have been anything wrong in that. The rudeness inherent in
refusing the invitation would, politically speaking, I think have
been more serious.
THE PRESIDENT (translation)
Does that
satisfy you, Mr Yanez-Barnuevo, or do you wish to put a further
question?
Mr YANEZ-BARNUEVO (Spain) (translation)
Obviously, it satisfies
me because I know Mr Suarez and I knew that even his answer would
be an electioneering one. In other words, I offered him a magnificent
opportunity. In any case, what I really wanted to do was to take
advantage of the first opportunity offered to Spanish parliamentarians
of having an open discussion in public with our Prime Minister.
If this happens to occur in Strasbourg, so much the better. I hope
the same thing will occur more often in the Spanish Cortes. And
speaking as a representative of the opposition, and just to show
him that we have no electoral axe to grind, I congratulate Mr Suarez sincerely
on his speech and, more particularly, on recognising that the Spanish
political parties have a part to play in our progress towards democracy.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT
Do you wish
to add anything to your reply, Mr Suarez?
Mr Suárez, President of the Spanish Government (translation)
Mr President, this hardly seems
to me the moment to enter into a discussion with Luis Yanez-Barnuevo,
my esteemed friend and colleague – because we are colleagues in
the Congress of Deputies – but I must point out to him that he could
have found other occasions for a debate with me in the Spanish Parliament
simply by following the rules of procedure. Had he wanted, the rules
of procedure of the Cortes and Congress of Deputies offered him
endless possibilities. I myself spoke in Parliament whenever it
seemed proper to do so and he himself, in the exercise of his parliamentary
rights, had every opportunity offered by the rules of procedure
of doing the same. As for his thanks for my earlier remarks, let
me tell him that, as he very well knows, they were no mere empty
words but the truth. It is the part of a well-bred man to recognise
such facts and to express gratitude for them.
THE PRESIDENT
Mr President,
in the post-war period there was a time when no one could start
an election campaign unless he had been seen on the steps of the
White House with the President of the United States. In the sixties
one had to have been seen in the Kremlin to have a good chance of
winning a campaign. Nowadays one does not count if one has not been
received by Mr Teng in Peking, and perhaps in the eighties we will
have a new period when election campaigns start in the hemicycle
of the Council of Europe. I must admit, however, in a very objective
way that both sides have the same chance in this hemicycle.
As members may know, the President is here not only to address
us and answer questions but also to present the Museum Prize of
the Council of Europe later this evening. This is why I must be
very brief in thanking him because our time is limited. I just want
to say that 5 December in my country is St Nicholas’ Day. St Nicholas can
be compared with Santa Claus, but with this difference, that he
comes from Spain and brings us gifts. I have noted that the President
has answered all the questions in a very gifted fashion. It is one
thing to answer questions but quite another to answer them from
memory as he has been doing.
You referred, Mr President, to the Council of Europe as the
cornerstone of democratic control. We all share the same ideals.
You also mentioned that the nucleus of European co-operation was
the European Community and you referred to the wish of your government
to become a member of that Community. I sincerely hope that the
Spanish Government will continue to take the same creative interest
in the Council of Europe once Spain has become a member of the European
Community. Why should we limit European co-operation to nine, ten, eleven
or even twelve members when twenty-one European democracies are
prepared to work together in such things as cultural cooperation,
combating terrorism and perhaps even a united effort to export democracy to
other countries? I also hope that in the future the Spanish Government
will take the same active part in our Committee of Ministers and
in the work of the Council of Europe and will also carefully note
all the decisions which this Assembly democratically makes.
I congratulate you, Mr President, on your excellent speech
and on the way in which you have answered the questions, which were
not always easy. Thank you very much. (Applause)