THE PRESIDENT (interpretation)
thanked
Mrs Tymoshenko for her most interesting address and for the clear
overview of the political situation in her country. Ukraine could
count on the Council of Europe to implement its reforms further
in times ahead.
(Translation). – Members of the Assembly have expressed a
wish to put questions to you. I remind them that questions must
be limited to 30 seconds and no more. Colleagues should be asking
questions and not making speeches.
We will have to interrupt the questions at about 1 pm. The
first question is from Mrs Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger, on behalf
of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe.
Mrs LEUTHEUSSER-SCHNARRENBERGER (Germany) (interpretation)
asked the Prime
Minister whether she would comment on the constitutional changes
made during her mandate.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that the Ukrainian Parliament
was faced with the issue of members of parliament frequently moving
from one faction to another. She gave an example: when the president
called for an election, 40 parliamentarians changed party. Ukraine
was currently a weak democracy, its parliament was weak and there
was a strong need to establish rules and measures in the constitution
in order to prevent such actions in future. Ukraine was a young
democracy and she noted that members of parliament should represent
the people rather than their own interests.
Mr MELNIKOV (Russian Federation) (interpretation)
said
that there were strong divisions in Ukrainian civil society and politics
about joining NATO, and that accession to NATO would possibly lead
to the country splitting. He asked why the process of joining NATO
had been speeded up.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that Ukraine was engaged in
expanding its co-operation in all areas, including NATO. Ukraine
wanted to be more active in discussions with NATO. However, Ukrainian politicians
would not go against the will of the Ukrainian people and it was
only through a referendum in which all Ukrainians were consulted
that a decision would be taken.
Mr LINTNER (Germany) (interpretation)
asked about Mrs Tymoshenko’s
vision of a sustainable and long-term security plan for Ukraine.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
answered that it was important
for Ukraine not to be isolated. She wanted to create an environment
where Ukraine felt protected within secure borders. Although retaining national
identity was important, Ukraine also wanted to participate in the
collective security of Europe, which was developing well, and to
be part of a European defence system.
Mr GROSS (Switzerland)
Prime Minister,
we would like to congratulate you on engaging with us. My question
to you is very concrete. We know that racism and anti-Semitism are
among the biggest expressions of wrongdoing in a democracy. We have
heard that Jewish books have been taken and burnt at the Ukrainian border
by a border force and that a synagogue in Kiev was taken by the
mayor and not given back to the Jewish community. Can you confirm
that, and what are you doing about it?
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that the examples given by
Mr Gross did not reflect the feelings of the Ukrainian people, or
the policy of her country, but considered those events as isolated
accidents. She had recently met a council of religious leaders to
discuss a wide range of issues and none had expressed concern about
such incidents. She stressed that Ukraine was a tolerant and open
society.
Mr MIRZAZADA (Azerbaijan) (interpretation)
asked about
the Ukrainian Government’s policy on the rights of ethnic minorities.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that her government had paid
extensive attention to the issue of rights of ethnic minorities.
In terms of the promotion of language and culture of ethnic minorities,
there were good examples of the government’s support and investment
– for example, in schools where children could learn and be instructed
in their minority language. Ukraine aspired to the protection of
rights of minorities, and there was no evidence of discrimination.
At the political level, all the nationalities of Ukraine were represented
in parliament and she wanted that to continue and be developed further.
Mr HOVANNISIAN (Armenia)
Prime Minister,
thank you for your tour d’horizon.
Your vision is very important for the civilisational, strategic
and political frontiers of Europe. In your personal opinion, what
position does Ukraine occupy in that vision? Is it part of the transatlantic
Europe, a new Eurasia or a multiple track of identity and belonging?
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
answered that Ukraine was a European
country and that the international community did not challenge that
fact. Some 70% of Ukrainian citizens identified themselves with European
Union countries, and it was her hope that step by step, Ukraine
would become a fully‑fledged member of the European family. With
respect to EU enlargement, because of the quality of its institutions Ukraine
would be ready to join in future by meeting the enlargement criteria.
Mr RIGONI (Italy) (interpretation)
wanted to return
to the issue of NATO expansion and asked for Mrs Tymoshenko’s views on
the absence of any defined timetable relating to Ukraine’s accession
to NATO.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
replied that Ukraine had clearly
stated its position, as encapsulated in its membership action plan.
She wanted to extend her gratitude to those countries that had supported
Ukraine’s aspirations of joining NATO. Ukraine’s position in relation
to NATO would be reviewed in future. There would be a need for a
referendum in Ukraine where people themselves would decide and politicians
would have to listen. However, she acknowledged that there was a
clear lack of understanding and information about collective security
in Europe. She gave the example of a recent talk show on television
where a politician was arguing against Ukrainian accession to NATO
but could not say what the acronym “NATO” stood for. There was therefore
a need for greater information and awareness to enable the people
of Ukraine to make an informed decision on accession to NATO.
Mr MacSHANE (United Kingdom)
Twenty
years ago Spain held a referendum on adherence to NATO, and public
opinion was against it. The Left were against it, and many politicians
in Spain also did not know what NATO stood for. You may draw some
comfort from that.
Do you consider that Russia has the right to veto any affiliation
of Ukraine to NATO?
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that she wanted to make it
clear that when she talked about Ukraine’s movement towards European
integration, other countries did not have a veto. She respected the
Russian Federation, but noted that it should be used to the situation
in which Ukraine was a strong and independent country. Those supporting
Ukraine would be supported. Ukraine and Russia were neighbours and partners.
Mr KOSACHEV (Russian Federation) (interpretation)
said
that the Prime Minister had spoken beautiful words about ethnic minorities
in Ukraine, but that when he heard from those minorities their message
was not in tune with hers. He had heard that schools in minority
languages were being closed – for example, those for the Russian-speaking
minority – and that there were boycotts, the media were curbed and
cinemas showing Russian-speaking films had been shut down. He asked
whether she called such actions “representing the interests of ethnic
minorities”.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said it could be said that the
Ukrainian Government also ate babies for breakfast! All those stories
should not be told. Ukrainians had been in a minority in their country
and had had to reassert their culture. Her family belonged to a
national minority; she had been born in eastern Ukraine, spoke the
Russian language, and had learned Ukrainian only as a member of
government in 2000. Her family still spoke the Russian language
and were happy with this – they spoke the language that they were happy
with. Her mother had said that she was too old to learn Ukrainian,
but that her soul was Ukrainian and she shared Ukrainian interests.
Mr VAREIKIS (Lithuania)
Your country
did not recognise the independence of Kosovo. May we hear a little more
about the reasons for that?
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that it was very important
to bear it in mind when Ukraine was discussed that there were outstanding
territorial issues. Its territorial integrity was at risk. It was
not clear whether Kosovo was a unique situation or established a
norm. When international organisations had clarified that point,
Ukraine would adopt its decisions. Multilateral discussions were
ongoing.
Mr ROCHEBLOINE (France) (interpretation)
asked what contribution
Europe could make to the greater stability of Ukraine’s relations
with its neighbouring states.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that the issue of co-operation
between Russia and Ukraine was frequently discussed. She wanted
to express her certainty that Ukraine and Russia were developing
a normal, balanced and harmonious relationship. Their history meant
that some positions were not yet clarified. That was mostly due
to the failure of previous Ukrainian authorities to develop a clear
basis for a future relationship, which would be crucial in helping
Ukraine to develop a long-term balanced position.
On April 25-26 the Russian Prime Minister would visit Ukraine
and Ukraine’s task was to identify the objectives and to start building
constructive co-operation. Ukraine would work to develop that relationship.
Mr JAKAVONIS (Lithuania) (interpretation)
said that Lithuania
and Ukraine had a commitment to developing a strategic partnership
regarding the development of democracy. Organisations such as the
GUAM Organization for Democracy and Economic Development – the GUAM
countries being Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan and Moldova – and Black
Sea Economic Co-operation were not working properly. He asked how
Mrs Tymoshenko was going to handle the frozen conflicts.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that Ukraine had ratified
the GUAM statutory document. It was engaged in co-operation. Regarding
Transnistria, her policy was obvious: she wanted Moldova to restore its
territorial integrity.
Mr PLESKACHEVSKIY (Russian Federation) (interpretation)
said
that Ukraine was of primary importance, not just politically, but
economically. There had been another conflict with Gazprom. Ukraine
still had a monopoly regarding the transport of natural gas and
he asked whether Ukraine would take on part of the responsibility
for that transportation.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that Ukraine was ready to
take responsibility for the transportation of natural gas across
Ukraine, but not to accept responsibility for large-scale corruption
in the movement of natural gas from Russia. She said that Ukrainian
actions had led to stresses on the supply of natural gas. One of
Ukraine’s accomplishments was to provide greater transparency in
the supply of gas. She now felt calm and safe about the issue.
Mr SLUTSKY (Russian Federation) (interpretation)
asked
what was happening in the Crimea regarding the Tartar minority seizing
land, which was a great concern. He asked Mrs Tymoshenko about her
policy on that issue.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that Ukraine protected the
Ukrainian Tartar minority and supported them in returning to where
they had lived. However, the Tartar minority could not violate Ukrainian laws,
which included clear legislation regarding land.
Mr BRANGER (France) (interpretation)
welcomed Mrs Tymoshenko’s
decision to lead Ukraine in efforts to combat corruption in that
country. In that, she had the full support of the Council of Europe.
The international press had taken up the story of the mayors of
Kiev and Kharkiv. He asked Mrs Tymoshenko whether she could reassure
him that the charges were not trumped up, and also expressed his
concern about conditions for migrants in Ukraine.
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that she wished to repeat
that Ukraine was developing anti-corruption procedures, for example
in land resources, property, state finances and local budgets. Those aspects
were not yet fully regulated in Ukraine. Ukraine was looking at
establishing the legislative basis for the transparent transfer
of property rights. The Ukrainian Parliament suspected the mayors
of Kiev and Kharkiv of making dishonest land transactions. The democratic
process was being followed and early elections had been announced
in Kiev. This was the first example of mayors being held responsible
for corruption; land was much sought after in the capital. Ukraine
was proving that it was able to overcome corruption.
Mr HANCOCK (United Kingdom)
Madam
Prime Minister, from what you said, you have an awfully big job ahead
of you. I am therefore curious to know why you chose to stand for
the city council elections in Kiev as number one on the list. I
am also interested in your points about the democratic processes
in Ukraine. Why was the mayor of Kiev removed from his post having
been democratically elected, with no charges proven against him,
so forcing an election that the people of Kiev did not want? (Applause)
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that she had paused because
she had wanted to work out where the applause had come from. Ukraine
should not be selective in combating corruption, and was doing it
in the old-fashioned way. Kiev was the capital city and there were
many political problems and issues there. Her political group had
just proved that lobbying was not a factor; it was ready to do its
part against corruption. Corruption should not be hidden. Ukrainian
democracy was developing well.
Mr Van den BRANDE (Belgium)
Prime Minister,
you faced great expectations when you made your commitments to our
common standards. Of course, that proves that the project of progress
is going well. However, there remain some concerns; as our council
for democratic elections, the Venice Commission, often says, what
about the imperative mandate? How will you give clarity on the proposal
relating to the Ukrainian Church and the European Court of Human
Rights? Finally, there are lots of rumours that you will go for
a threshold of 8% or 9%. What is the real position currently between
the Prime Minister and the President of the Republic?
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
said that countries were able to
develop successfully when their parliaments had fresh ideas and
young and talented leaders. Ukraine had formed its political institutions the
hard way, and she was not in favour of increasing the threshold.
It was normal within democracies for parties to develop and change.
While established democracies might have one example every dozen
years or so of someone crossing from one party to another, Ukraine
had had 40 members of parliament do so in a single year. Different
prescriptions fitted different countries as their political institutions
developed, and the Ukrainian parties would continue to develop and
mature. Some restraint on moving between them might be needed; she did
not believe so, but the consensus in the Ukrainian Parliament was
in favour.
Ukraine should have a judge at the European Court of Human
Rights as soon as possible.
Mrs JAZŁOWIECKA (Poland)
Thank you, Mr President.
Prime Minister, first, I wish you all the best in leading your country
to success. I have one small question: what kind of consequences
will Ukrainian society face after joining its neighbour state in
the Schengen zone?
Ms Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine (interpretation)
thanked the Polish people for their
support for Ukraine over many years. The separation of Ukraine and
Poland by the Schengen border had been difficult, and Ukraine had
therefore sought negotiations with the EU on border crossings without
visas. Those negotiations would be neither easy nor quick, but it
would be good for Ukraine to know what was required and to work
towards it.
She thanked the Parliamentary Assembly for its interest in
Ukraine and its good wishes towards her country. She had been glad
to answer difficult questions to help the Assembly to understand
Ukraine better. She hoped that she would be able to return to the
Assembly in future.
THE PRESIDENT (translation)
Thank you,
Prime Minister. That brings us to the end of the questions. I thank
you for your involvement in this democratic exercise of answering
parliamentarians’ questions, and for the clarity of your answers.
