THE PRESIDENT
Some sixteen
members have asked to put questions to you. We would like to try
to get through them all if possible. Consequently, I propose that
we do not have supplementary questions. Members are reminded that
they should limit their questions to thirty seconds. They are not
making speeches; they are asking questions.
We have tried to group the questions according to subject;
that will make it easier for the Prime Minister. The first group
concerns the Czech Republic's attitude to the Nato action in Kosovo.
The first questioner is Mr Mühlemann.
Mr MÜHLEMANN (Switzerland) (translation)
Prime Minister,
ladies and gentlemen, we are aware that some people in Prague take
a different view of what Nato is doing. Could you tell us what alternative
solution the opponents of this action propose?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I emphasise the simple
fact that the Czech Government is a loyal member of Nato. We have
fulfilled all the requirements laid upon us. The problem is as follows:
will the bombardment strengthen the position of Milosevic or will
it weaken his position? That is the crucial question that has to
be discussed in respect of all our obligations and duties as a full
member of Nato.
We have no original proposals. We agree with the three proposals
of Joschka Fischer, your colleague. They are as follows. The first
is on disarmament. The five points of Nato are completely valid.
They reflect Mr Fischer's proposals. The second concerns the guarantee
from the Security Council. The third involves the participation
of the Russian Federation in the Kosovo conflict. Only Russia is
able to put some pressure on Milosevic. Co-operation between Nato
and the Russian Federation would be a good idea.
Therefore, there are no protests against the action as such.
There is discussion about the efficiency of various methods, how
to overthrow the dictatorship and how to stop the genocide. In democratic
society, such a discussion is necessary. Not to discuss those problems
would be one-sided.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next questioner on the same subject is Mr Shuba of the Russian Federation,
who is a member of the Group of the European People's Party. It
appears that he is not here. In that case the next question is from
Mr Glotov, who is also from the Russian Federation and who is a
member of the Group of the Unified European Left.
Mr GLOTOV (Russian Federation) (interpretation)
recalling
the Czech Republic's former membership of the Warsaw Pact, asked
whether the Czech people would adhere in full to the principles
of Nato. What was his reaction to taking part in ground forces?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic (interpretation)
recalled that in 1968
Warsaw Pact tanks came to Prague uninvited. He added that one difference
between Nato and the Warsaw Pact was that Nato tanks would never
invade the Czech Republic.
THE PRESIDENT
The next
question on the same subject is from Mr Davis of the United Kingdom,
who is a member of the Socialist Group.
Mr DAVIS (United Kingdom)
My question
concerns the post-war situation, rather than the current situation in
Kosovo. May I welcome the emphasis that Mr Zeman puts on a long-term
strategy for the reconstruction of Kosovo and Serbia. Clearly he
agrees that such a strategy should involve not only replacement
of buildings but the creation of a new society, based on the values
of the Council of Europe and, as he puts it, respect for diversity.
Therefore, the Council of Europe has a role to play, but do
you accept that such action will involve the education not only
of a new generation of leaders but of a generation of people? Leaders
without supporters are powerless.
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I completely agree with
you. That was one of the topics of my speech. The idea cannot be
excluded that a new Marshall Plan will be needed in the former Yugoslavia,
including Kosovo. The Czech Republic is prepared to participate.
The Czech Government proposed to the Czech Parliament that financial
help should be given to Kosovo refugees, amounting to one billion
Czech crowns. Of course, our financial position is not good, but
solidarity is more important than economy. That is why we are prepared
to participate in the reconstruction of the former Yugoslavia. We
are also prepared to participate in education programmes, but we
cannot exaggerate our influence. Such help must be co-ordinated.
We should endeavour to do it under the leadership of the Council
of Europe.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next question is still on the Nato strikes but specifically
on their eco logical impact. It is to be put by Mr Aushev of the
Russian Federation and a member of the Socialist Group. He appears
not to be here. Therefore, the next question is on the humanitarian
impact of Nato strikes. It is to be put by Mr Zhebrovsky of the
Russian Federation. He is non inscrit, which means that he is not
a member of a political group.
Mr ZHEBROVSKY (Russian Federation) (interpretation)
recalled
the early 1960s and the methods of Krushchev, and asked whether
it was right to fight for Kosovan rights in the same way, with the
consequences being seen in respect of refugees.
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic (interpretation)
said that the question
was based on a false premise, namely that the crisis in Kosovo had
started when Nato had started bombing. The first act of the tragedy
had taken place some ten years ago, when the autonomous status of
Kosovo was abolished. Causes and effects should not be confused!
(Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT
The last
question on Kosovo is from Lord Judd, who is a member of the Socialist
Group.
Lord JUDD (United Kingdom)
Interestingly,
you have said that the involvement of the Russian Federation in the
future handling of the situation is crucial. You have also referred
to guarantees by the Security Council. As I understand it, Russia
looks to the United Nations for leadership, while America does not
believe that the UN can provide convincing military leadership and
that any military operation, even if it is endorsed by the UN, must be
led by Nato. How can that circle be squared?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
As you know, the official
declarations from Nato's Washington Summit expressed the desire
of all the allies to include Russia in the solution of the conflict.
Three proposals were made: the first had Nato in command; the second
had Nato as a core; and the third was a repetition of the Dayton
Bosnia model. Joschka Fischer proposes a guarantee from the Security
Council, because if Russia was willing to participate in such an
operation it would probably abstain and not use its veto on the
Security Council resolution. As far as I know that is Nato's proposal
for Russian participation. I discussed the issue last week with
Mr Primakov and Mr Ivanov. I do not think that they are against
such co-operation or that they support Milosevic. They have the
strength to put pressure on Milosevic to agree to land forces being placed
in Kosovo. That is my evaluation of where matters stand.
THE PRESIDENT
There are
two questions on the entry of the Czech Republic to the European
Union and Nato. The first is from Mr Jaskiernia, who is a member
of the Socialist Group.
Mr JASKIERNIA (Poland)
In your very interesting
speech, you told us that the Czech Republic was applying for membership
of the European Union. Can you tell us a little more about what
stage you are at legally and economically? When do you predict that
you will fulfil all the conditions necessary to become a member
of the European Union and when do you predict that the Czech Republic
will join the European Union? I know that it is not only up to you,
but your comment and prediction would be valuable.
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
My answer may be surprising.
The problems for the Czech Republic's full membership of the European
Union are mainly ones of domestic policy rather than foreign policy,
because we have to adapt all our legislation towards the norms of
the acquis communautaire. Three years ago Hans Van den Broek said
that it was not the European Union that was asking the Czech Republic to
join. I fully agree and that comment is still valid. Adapting our
legislation is a problem of domestic policy. Some laws are not necessary.
For example, European norms prescribe even technological parameters
such as the length and breadth of a bus. It would be nonsense to
prepare laws about such technological norms. We adapt our norms
wherever we have the chance, but the legislative process is relatively
slow. We have two chambers and all laws have to be adopted in both.
The date depends on the European Union. After the Helsinki
Summit at the end of this year or early next year there is a good
chance that a concrete date will be proposed. However, the problem
of the timing of the process is exaggerated. From a historical perspective,
it does not matter whether the Czech Republic becomes a full member
of the European Union in 2003 or 2004. The core of the problem is
not just to have good legislation that is compatible with European
law and the acquis communautaire, but to implement all the laws
and to have an efficient state apparatus. Those are issues of domestic
policy.
THE PRESIDENT
The second
question on this subject comes from Mr Marshall of the Socialist
Group.
Mr MARSHALL (United Kingdom)
I should
like to follow on from the Prime Minister's answer to the previous question.
He will be aware that complying with the acquis of the European
Union involves not just the legislative process but an additional
cost. The Czech Republic will be faced with an extra financial burden
as a consequence of complying with the acquis. There is a similar
problem in relation to its membership of Nato, which will require
a restructuring of its forces, imposing a further financial burden.
Why are the people of the Czech Republic prepared to face such an
increased financial burden?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
If you want to be a
member of a club, you must respect its rules. If you do not want
to be a member of a club, in light of the globalised society and
economy, the result will be isolation – non-splendid isolation.
The consequence of isolation will be the low growth of gross domestic
product and technology and the complete obsolescence of the Czech
national economy. A cost-benefit analysis must be done. We know
that participation in the EU and Nato has some costs but we know also
that it has some benefits. I have mentioned overcoming isolation.
If you compare the benefits and the costs for the Czech Republic,
you see that it is better to be inside than outside the family.
THE PRESIDENT
The next
question comes from Mr Jansson from Finland who wants to ask about
the principality of Liechtenstein.
Mr JANSSON (Finland)
That is correct.
Reference has been made to relationships between member states of
the Council of Europe, and you referred, Mr Prime Minister, to the
monitoring procedure after your country's accession to the Council
of Europe. Are there obstacles preventing the recognition of the
Principality of Liechtenstein by your country? If so, what in your
view can be done to overcome them?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I am very happy that
my colleague from Finland is interested in a bilateral problem that
may exist between Liechtenstein and the Czech Republic. First, I
have proposed bilateral negotiations on this topic between representatives
of Liechtenstein and the Czech Republic. That might provide a solution.
There are some open property problems, as there are in some other
countries. This is no special case. There were some problems between
Germany and the Czech Republic which, after my visit to Bonn, were
solved and we opened the road towards the future. When my friends
in Liechtenstein invite me to Vaduz, it will be a pleasure for me
to participate in a bilateral attempt to solve the problem. If there is
no satisfactory resolution, we shall ask the Council of Europe for
help.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next question is from Mr Atkinson, the leader of the European
Democratic Group. He wants to ask about Czech asylum seekers in
the United Kingdom.
Mr ATKINSON (United Kingdom)
Mr Prime
Minister, as you will recall, several hundred Czech citizens arrived
on British shores last year seeking asylum, which came as a surprise
to us because your citizens, like ours, enjoy unique protection
of their human rights as a member state of the Council of Europe,
including the right of petition to the European Court of Human Rights.
Did these people have a genuine cause to flee from their country
or did they have some other reason to come to Britain?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I would like to be frank
with my colleague. There is a problem with minorities in the Czech
Republic. That problem has been rather exaggerated by the press,
but it exists. We have tried to solve the problem and we have started
with the education of the young children of the minorities. We have
tried to improve living conditions and we have created institutions
providing them with guarantees.
I was frank in the first part of my answer and I shall be
frank in the second part. We have one commercial television station
which showed to that group of the population the high living standards
not only in the United Kingdom but in Canada and other countries.
After that, the people simply wanted to visit the UK and other countries
– not because of discrimination but simply in the hope of substantially
increasing their standard of living. They were disappointed.
We cannot increase our standard of living in a short time
but we are doing our best to prevent any form of discrimination
against minorities, with one exception – the minority of smokers.
I am a heavy smoker and I completely accept it when I am discriminated
against. (Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT
I hear the
smokers applauding you. The next question comes from Mrs Langthaler
from Austria. She wishes to ask about the Temelin nuclear power
station.
Mrs LANGTHALER (Austria) (translation)
Thank you very
much. Prime minister, the Chernobyl nuclear disaster took place
precisely thirteen years ago. Before that, Austria had already taken
up a clear posi tion against the operation of nuclear power stations.
We are particularly worried about such plants near national borders.
You are aware of the long-standing dispute concerning Temelin and
of the position of the Austrian opposition. In a few weeks' time,
your government will be deciding whether to finish building Temelin
or not. I should like to ask you whether you can already let us
know now what the Czech Government's decision will be.
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
For the first time there
has been some completely objective expertise on Temelin. In a fort
night, the Czech Government will decide between two choices which are
very complicated – do we stop Temelin or continue the building while
respecting all the necessary safety measures? Yes, of course, there
have been problems, including Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and others.
I know that you have stopped your power station following a referendum,
but we know that in France – I hope that French colleagues are present
– approximately 80% of electricity is generated by nuclear power
stations.
There are different experiences and our government must decide
democratically. It has nineteen members, and I am no dictator, so
my voice is only one among nineteen. The decision will be taken
within two weeks.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next question, on the Czech Fund for the Future, is from Mr Behrendt, who
is a member of the Socialist Group.
Mr BEHRENDT (Germany)
Mr Prime Minister,
you have already referred to Czech-German relations. I want to ask
about the declaration of reconciliation between the Czech Republic
and Germany, dating from January 1997. I wonder how you judge the
fund, which has been implemented in the framework of that declaration,
and whether you think that it might serve as a model for future
friendship agreements elsewhere in Europe.
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I greatly appreciate
the fund. You will know that the Czech-German declaration says that
the majority of the resources should be devoted to victims of nazi
terror. Their average age is more than 70 and they are dying rapidly.
Help for concentration camp survivors must come rapidly, because
we cannot help those who have already died. The Czech-German declaration
also provides a common forum for discussion and not only the past
but the future is discussed. Politicians should discuss mainly the
future and leave historians to study the past.
Questions for the future include the youth exchange and common
ecological projects such as the RhineElbe project, and cultural
exchange, as well as euroregions and many other matters. As a former
social forecaster, I must admit that there is a golden rule for
scientific forecasting which says that the future is always clear
and only the past changes all the time.
THE PRESIDENT
If you were
a forecaster, you have an opportunity to be one again now, because
we have come to the mystery section. The last three questioners
have not given subjects. The first of them is from Mrs Ojuland,
who is leader of the Liberal, Democratic and Reformers' Group.
Mrs OJULAND (Estonia)
I promise that
there is no mystery about my question.
I want to ask about the future of the Council of Europe. We
are celebrating its fiftieth anniversary, so we know the face of
the Council in the past fifty years. What do you think that its
face will be in the next fifty?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I think that I gave
some response to that complicated question in my speech. My forecast
was based on the assumption of the continuation of the process of convergence
of the two European families, namely the Council of Europe and the
European Union. In the horizon of fifty years – not fifteen years
– even modem Russia could participate. I am speaking of a democratic Russia,
the Russia of Dostoyevsky, Turgenev, Tolstoy, Chekhov and Solzhenytsin,
not the Russia of Stalin or Brezhnev. In the long term, not only
the Baltic states but the Russian Federation could become part of
the European Union. I am always optimistic because without dreams
and optimism politics would be too risky a job for me. Within the
next fifty years Europe could be completely integrated – not unified,
let me stress – as a democratic family.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The last question is from Mr Solonari, who is a member of the Socialist
Group.
Mr SOLONARI (Moldova)
The Czech Republic
was and is one of the most successful countries of central and eastern
Europe in the matter of European integration. My colleagues and
I are very sure that soon your country will become a fully fledged
member of the European Union. I congratulate you on that success,
but it is a fact of life that the integration of some countries
into the European Union is accompanied by the appearance of new
dividing lines between the more successful countries and their less
successful neighbours to the east. For example, problems can arise
in visa regimes under the Schengen Agreement. What concrete measures
could or should be taken to mitigate the negative impact of such
developments?
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I discussed that problem
during my visit to Bulgaria and Romania. It is possible to accept
concrete domestic measures in your country and others against illegal immigration
and to control passports and other documents. The so-called blacklist
of the European Union has been based on statistical data on illegal
immigration but I do not think that there is a strong connection
between a country's economic performance and the strength of the
measures that it takes against illegal immigration – in other words,
security measures. That is why I firmly hope that such domes tic
measures will be applied, and that the number of illegal immigrants
to the Czech Republic and, above all, to Germany will decrease gradually. In
such circumstances, the possibility that the blacklist will be changed
cannot be excluded.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you
very much, Prime Minister. That concludes questions. We thank you
warmly for the frank, friendly and informative way in which you
have responded. I know that you have a press conference to face
in fifteen minutes, so we will release you for that. Again, I thank
you for coming and we hope you will come back.
Mr Zeman, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic
I thank members of the
Assembly for their attention. Goodbye, all the best and good luck
to each of you.