Parliamentary Assembly

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

Many people now say that we face similar circumstances to those that we saw during the decades of the Cold War. Someone has even said that we face an ice-cold war. Finland appreciates and respects dialogue, and we are trying to enhance that all the time. Last week, I had the opportunity to meet President Xi of China, and I have also met President Trump and President Putin recently. The world order has changed. I mention those three gentlemen, but we others – 7 billion of us – depend on what they think and how they handle their policies. However, those others can also have an influence through dialogue – by telling them what we think, and hoping we return fully to a rules-based order, which has been beneficial for every human being – including in this Parliamentary Assembly, every time you meet.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

Yes, we have a big neighbour, and I have already said that we want to have dialogue. Finland also has a dialogue, as I do personally, with the Ukrainian President Poroshenko. There is only one aim for Finland: trying to have a dialogue and thus enhancing the peace, which is most important for all of us.

We also chair the Arctic Council at the moment, so this is a year of three presidencies for Finland. The visit of our Foreign Minister yesterday and my visit today has opened our eyes to the fact that the Council of Europe and the European Union have a lot in common. Like you said, we are a player now, with our presidency of the European Union starting mid-year. This is a good lesson for us, too. Your idea about trying to enhance co-operation between the institutions is a good one that I gladly support.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

I have said many times that, if we lose the Arctic, we lose the globe. How we protect the Arctic is vital. There are historical and geographical reasons why the Arctic Council has only eight permanent members. We have observers, as you said, and we have noticed a lot of increasing interest in becoming an observer, from the very South to the very North. On the European Union’s observer status, that was tabled a long time ago and has been discussed year after year. We might try it again someday. However, we are all aware that Russia has vetoed it. As long as that is the situation, it is difficult to go further. Let us put it this way: I fully agree with you.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

In Finland we face a problem – specifically with young boys – where they somehow fall out of society. What we have been thinking and doing about that and about the radicalisation of youngsters fits together. The key is that everyone, especially young people, should feel that they are part of society. When people feel a part of society, they behave in a decent way. How do we make youngsters feel that? Education is surely one way, and so are financial solutions to help them.

I have also pointed out the responsibility of each individual. I suddenly remember words from here or there from when I was a youngster, such as somebody saying to me “Don’t do that again” or “Now you’ve made it fine”. Such reactions from people near to us either bring us in or take us out of society. I think everybody will have similar experiences from their youth. It is very odd, actually, how one sentence from a total stranger can still come into our minds after decades. Why? Because it had an impact. We all have an impact on each other.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

As I said, I have been in discussions with both President Poroshenko and President Putin, including about the Council of Europe and the current situation. I hope to be able to try to enhance that dialogue so as to enable us at the end to find a common solution. Surely it is not in my hands; it is more in your hands. However, I have said today to Madam President and the Secretary General that if it is needed, or if they think it would be useful, I am always there, trying to help.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

If we find populism or new kinds of opposition arising in different countries, we cannot just say, “Well, they are wrong.” We also have to look in the mirror. Have we done something wrong that has raised these kinds of feelings? Trying to find the answers is a very difficult task.

I think the situation in many countries is similar to that in Finland. If I compare the situation now with 30 years ago, I see that almost everything is better for ordinary people, but I am not sure that people are more satisfied than they were at the beginning of this era. We should also bear in mind that we human beings are such that we get used to good things, and we also get used to demanding more good things. That makes politics more and more difficult, and maybe it makes populism easier and easier.

One of the new elements we face is social media, but somehow I am optimistic. As we can all see, sometimes it is very aggressive and not necessarily truthful, but I am optimistic. I somehow feel that this trend will pass. People get bored when they keep seeing things that make them think, “Well, that really wasn’t quite true” or “That was throwing the ball too far.” I am a strong believer in democracy. To refer to the Finnish experience again, we have had two periods, the first in the ’70s and the second just 10 years ago, when a new party made big gains, and we called them populists. Both of them, in the ’70s and now, ended up with governmental responsibility and they changed – they vanished also. We have to think carefully about these kinds of elements. If we say to some of these movements, “You’re totally wrong. Get out. Shut your mouth,” that does not work and often only generates more criticism.

On the question of refugees, I would repeat what I said. The migration problem is specific to the European Union area, and the European Union has to take a leading role in how people get into Europe, how we interpret asylum legislation and, if at the end there are people who are not entitled to stay, how we return them together. If different European Union members create their own systems, I am afraid that we will end up with chaos.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

I have not seen the comments of the German Chancellor. Surely times have changed, and it is indeed possible that if there were a new round or a totally new situation, we should make an agreement like the one that we did. The context might be a bit different, because we are facing different times and different phenomena, but basically, as I have said, I am a strong believer in a rules-based order and, in the end, I think it would very much be possible to end up with an almost similar convention.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

I think Finnish industry will be very happy that you have given me the chance to tell you about everything it can offer. We all face the phenomenon of urbanisation, which is a huge challenge. In Finland, many companies are co-operating on how to solve the problems of urbanisation, such as wastewater, access to clean water and traffic. We need a lot more of this kind of thinking. We know that people tend to move to cities but it is a huge environmental challenge, which we must try to clear up.

Turning to Minsk, Finland fully supports the ongoing process. I understand that there is a bit more optimism at the moment. We hope that there will be a solution; surely Azerbaijan and Armenia are the key players in what will happen.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

I am not aware that Finland is changing its treaties. I am aware, however, that Finland is going through the existing treaties and how they are interpreted. One example is the Dublin Agreement, of which we still hear two different interpretations. We should be clear about what the international agreements and conventions demand and what they do not expect from signatories. This is the work we are doing. I do not believe that there will be any huge change in Finnish migration policy. The problem, however, is that we received quite a lot of young men who were not entitled to refugee status but are not leaving the country. That is a dangerous situation for them and for others. Feeling yourself to be, in a way, empty is not good for a young boy.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

As I said, it is quite a difficult situation. If you have people staying in your country illegally, which is their situation if they do not have refugee status, it is difficult to give any good answer to that question. You cannot treat people, even if they are staying illegally, in a way that does not follow human demands. That is why all the countries in the European Union face the same problem. Thus, it is most important that the European Union should take a leading role so that we do not see country-by-country solutions, which are not always the best ones possible.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

Finland has been supportive of enlargement. The last major enlargement wave was decided in 1999 in Helsinki during the Finnish presidency. However, we must also recognise that the European Union has quite a lot of problems at the moment. There is European monetary union and financial problems. The global importance of the European Union has been declining. Why? My explanation is that it is because we have difficulty in agreeing and making compromises to find a clear path. That also damages the possibility of our having a place at the global table, which we should have.

I think the European Union needs to improve a lot. During its presidency I want Finland to take this question back to the table: where is the European spirit? I felt it in the 1990s when Finland joined the European Union, but I am not sure that I feel it in totally the same way today. We should find it again. That would also give rise to the possibility of enlargement. But enlarging something that needs fixing is a kind of paradox.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

Let me start with a couple of words about our success story. Some say that you have to use a lot of resources for this, but our educational budget is average among those of OECD countries, so this is not achieved by money. Our teachers do have a university education, unlike the position in many other countries, but the basic element here is totally different – it is respect. I am talking about respect for education and respect for teachers. If you have pupils who clearly respect education and the teacher, who has given them knowledge and information, that makes for the best result. You ask how we can export that. We have created a clear combination as to how we can export “the Finnish education” to different countries, and it is being exported quite lot. However, my answer still is that this lies in attitudes. You have to respect what you do, as then you do it well.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

Yes. We planned to have an Arctic Summit, the first ever where the heads of State could meet, This was going well until something happened and it now seems that we are not able to arrange it. As for the Arctic area, one explanation for what is happening is surely that the surroundings are cool enough not to have hot talks. This is being tested now, because of the environmental element; the melting of the ice is dangerous for the whole globe. However, huge economic interests are involved, and how these eight Arctic countries can handle and combine them is a test now. So far, as you said, we have not seen any major problems, and it seems that the big members – the United States and Russia – are both trying not to bring to that table issues that raise only problems. That is a good attitude to have. As I said, the two elements of the environment and the economic interests may create a new and testing situation.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

Kiitos. Thank you. That was wonderful Finnish spoken. As I said in my speech, in Finland we have a lot to give thanks for on equality. Finland was the first country in the world to give full political rights to women. This is key to our success story, and I hope that all nations find out the same truth. I also mentioned the HeForShe movement, which is led by United Nations women; and we talk specifically about Africa. We Europeans – this is more for the European Union – must do concrete things together. All the EU countries must do things together, with a clear plan of how to enhance the position of women and girls in Africa. That would help us a lot in the future. My answer has to be that eyes have to be opened to understanding that it is to our benefit if women are strong – we all benefit from that. Sometimes you have to be “selfish” and give possibilities to others in order to help yourself.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

We can have but just one opinion: racism is totally wrong. That has been written down in our conventions and it is a guideline for every covenant. On Nazism, you mentioned the Finnish experience of having flags. I want to tell you that the police took them off these people quite quickly and they will continue taking them off them. The problem with those movements is how to respond legally to them. In a modern society it is difficult to ban certain groups, especially if they are not legally organised; you do not know who they are. But the position must be very clear: you have to react to everything that is not in accordance with legislation. I am sure that that is the Finnish answer, against both racism and Nazism.

Mr Niinistö, President of Finland

We are helping in every possible way, especially where you see that we can or should do something. In the end, I underline that it is in the hands of the Council of Europe; the Committee of Ministers and the Assembly have to work together to try to find an answer. By all means, however, we will be as helpful as we can be. We will try to help with whatever is needed.

You rightly mention that even the nature of the institution might change. I am worried not only about Russia’s membership of the Council of Europe, which is surely important, but that it is the only institutional link between Europe and Russia. If even that is cut away, how can we continue the dialogue?