Parliamentary Assembly

Mr Rebelo De Sousa, President of Portugal

Well, thank you for your question. It's a very simple answer. We are a country of migrants. We are all around the world. We are 10 million inside our territory and 10 to 12 million abroad. In every continent. So for us, migration and the drama of refugees is a reality we have known for centuries.

We have had a dictatorship. Several dictatorships. The last one until 1974, which means we know what fighting against a dictatorship means. So we do understand the drama of migrants and refugees. We do know how important it is to understand the dramas of those societies because we have troops fighting in central Africa with humanitarian purposes. They're fighting wars, avoiding instability, working for sustainable development with economic and social aid.

So we know how important it is to create conditions in those countries around Europe, the Middle East, Northern Africa, even central Africa. I don't speak of some other Asian or Latin American countries at this point. So we do understand to have a democratic consensus on that subject. From the far left to the far right, all the parties agree on that subject in Portugal.

We know that there are several questions. The first one is the protection of human life. Then there is, of course, the fight against illegal or criminal activities. There is the need for common policies, European common policies concerning both migrants and refugees. There we have a very open vision. The best solution would be to try to find multilateral solutions. If not possible, let us at least bilaterally through agreements or unilaterally adopt positions accepted by the countries that don't want to go as far as Portugal does. Accepting, receiving, including in every sense of the word.

So that's the reason. I mean, history explains a lot how people are and how people do understand certain problems. But we do understand also that for other countries it's more difficult, without having this experience, to have the same position Portugal has. That's why tolerance, dialogue, understanding and institutions like these are so important.

The world is full - it's one of the last fashions - full of unilateralism, full of protectionism, full of egocentric ideas. Let us try to keep on moving the institutions where there is multilateralism, where there is the tolerance that is dialogue. Because no country, even the most powerful superpower, is an island. Nobody is an island in this world. Everybody depends upon all the other countries.

And mostly, let us think of the citizens, of the people. Those people were born where they were born. They didn't choose where they were born. They have the right of being treated... Protecting and respecting their dignity. That's my answer.

(APPLAUSE)

Mr Rebelo De Sousa, President of Portugal

Well, of course, we respect the sovereignty of any state, but it's our duty to diplomatically support our citizens through all means accepted by international law. Most of all, this is when we think that they are fulfilling an important mission, when they are thinking mostly of that value I've spoken of, protection of human life. But, we do not forget that we need to find the way of trying to define policies and take measures at the European level. I mean, unilateral actions are very important. Citizenship is very important. The role of the citizens, young citizens, all the citizens, is vital, because that's the key to democracy that is alive all over Europe. But, I think, at the same time, European states, at different levels, must consider and make an effort to find common solutions and, once accepted, to implement them. Because I do believe in multilateralism. But my answer, yes, of course, the Portuguese state is doing whatever is needed and is possible under the legal point of view to protect one citizen, every citizen, in such a situation.

Mr Rebelo De Sousa, President of Portugal

Well, that's the problem. I think it's a universal problem, it's a European problem, it's also a Portuguese problem.

Why? Because courts now implement decisions or take decisions that, in most cases, mean preventive measures that increase the prison population up to thousands, thousands of people in different situations and circumstances. So, there is a need for reform. Not only a reform of logistics, which is very important, the physical situation of those that are in prison, in jail, but also as you mentioned, psychiatric and psychological support, permanent support, in conditions that are very different, very, very different, because there was also a change in the kind of criminality.

We were used to physical criminality against people. Now, we have very much the development of economic, financial, social criminality. Of course, we have developed measures concerning other alternative measures. I mean to be in prison at home, to have electronic control, to develop these kinds of - and follow-up of people that used to be detained and be in jail.

This has developed very much, but I do admit, we need to do more. And we must do more in the very near future even because there are different situations, it depends on ages, on the kind of criminality, and also there is a problem of the social conditions of living inside prisons. The social conditions are a very worrying problem, I think, at the European level, at a universal level, but also at the Portuguese level. But I think it's one of the reforms that will be taken – will be debated – during the next electoral campaign, very much debated, and we'll have its follow up in the next four years, I'm sure.

Mr Rebelo De Sousa, President of Portugal (translation)

That was a very important subject, which I mentioned in my speech and which is very topical.

There have been GRECO recommendations concerning transparency in public life in different areas. As far as the status of judges is concerned –and we will vote– it took time. It has taken time to negotiate with the judiciary, with the Union Associations representing judges, and we will vote next week, before the end of the legislature, on the new status of judges. Similarly, with the Public Prosecutor's Office, which is a very important institution, for the fight against corruption, we will approve today or tomorrow in Parliament the new statute of the Public Prosecutor's Office.

The concerns are precisely as follows: to affirm a rational principle of the independence of judges and courts, to affirm the autonomy of the public prosecutor's office and to strengthen its resources in terms of functional and financial status.

At the same time, there is the problem, which you mentioned, of transparency in political life. This requires other measures, which are addressed, for example, to Members of Parliament or officials in the public administration. It was a long negotiation that took four years.

You know, it is very difficult to debate and vote on this type of measure. I am a suspect, since I have always supported them, before becoming President of the Republic, as a professor of law, but I admit that it is a long and difficult negotiation, on incompatibilities, on the property status of political and administrative leaders, on relations with the private sector, on relations with professional life, but also you, as you mentioned, with regard to family ties or excessive proximity ties that can allow the appearence of clientelism. This is a very important subject because populisms appear very often because of this type of argument. It is easy to say that the system is "rotten" where the system has examples of crises concerning transparency in public life and sanctions for political leaders.

Well, these transparency laws are going to be passed – this is the part of the recommendation that was not followed last year, it took time – before the end of this legislature. I myself – you know, the Head of State has no power to present bills – informally, I have submitted to the government a regulation on the same subject within the Presidency of the Republic. Not necessarily for the President of the Republic, this was not the case, but if it is necessary to do so, of course, there is the law that provides for it, but concerning everyone who revolves around the President of the Republic.

I hope that all these laws are passed, I have to enact them. This is the first time that lobbying, which was not settled in Portugal, neither at the level of the parliament, nor at the level of the government, nor at the level of local or regional authorities. This is a very important step, in my opinion, decisive for the quality of democracy in Portugal.

It is not enough to look back, to say what we have done from a dictatorship to change, to enforce a democratic Constitution, to replace revolutionary military power, to have a strong political system. Democracy must be permanently recreated. That means a lot more quality in our democracy. This means that many of the recommendations of GRECO that have waited until now will be observed, I hope, by the end of July, through the approval and promulgation, if necessary, of laws concerning transparency in public life and also the status of magistrates, judges and the public prosecutor.

Mr Rebelo De Sousa, President of Portugal

I think that democracy is not just personal democracy, political democracy. It's also economic, social and cultural democracy. There is no full democracy if you don't have, of course political rights, personal rights. If you don't have separation of powers, Rule of law.

But you don't have full democracy if you're not worried about social rights, economic rights and cultural rights and if you do not fight against inequalities. Different kinds of discrimination, unfair discrimination at a national level, at a regional level, at a local level, at European level, at a universal level.

We know it's a difficult fight. We are facing it in Portugal with a broad consensus. There is a broad consensus because we feel it's not just a party question. It is really a problem of human dignity. A problem of respect for Human rights. Human rights must be respected by the right-wing and left-wing parties, far right and far left-wing parties. I myself am a centre-right politician coming from the centre-right. The government in Portugal is a left-wing government as you know. We have centre-right and right-wing parties in the opposition that are always very attentive to Human rights and social rights.

The question is how to really convert those social rights into a priority in the European agenda. When sometimes one speaks much more about the budget, about budgetary deficit, of the control of that budget, of external budget, you have mostly a very financial point of view. Most of it. As a head of state I should have it, but I have personally, a mixed position on that subject. I think it's useful and important to have control over budget and public debt because we know that the reality, the financial reality of the world, is what it is. If you don't have it, if you do not fulfil those objectives, we will be facing, as we faced, a serious crisis, and it will be impossible to create the base, a sound base, for strong economic reforms.

But at the same time we cannot forget the appeal not only for social rights concerning the change in technology, in science, but also that huge appeal that some people ignored for a while and still ignore, that is climate change. We cannot deny it. I read very carefully all the declarations by politicians denying that reality, but you cannot deny reality. I just came from Portugal where one is not freezing but where the weather is very cold. Seasons have changed completely. I find myself here as if I was in a tropical country.

But that is just a detail. What is not a detail is what we see being an ocean country. The problem of the oceans. Having islands in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. What we see. of he effects of climate change. Just to give you an example of realities that go beyond just a financial point of view, that go beyond just a strict economic point of view.

And then you have common people, the citizens. They are people with their needs and their requests. Needs and requests mean social rights. So the European Union for instance should be more attentive to the social pillar, to sustainable development. At the same time, one is very attentive concerning financial and economic situations. One should look at it and not just because not looking at it is losing most of what matters for younger generations. Not just for that reason but for a substantial reason. It matters also for those that are ageing. European societies, not all of them, but many of them are ageing very very quickly, with social problems. Social needs. That means social rights. So I believe and I hope that the European agenda for the next couple of years will introduce, all together – with the traditional way of seeing what is more important for European integration – introduces social concerns, social policies, social commitments and climate change. Not doing it would be for Europe to lose one of the reasons why Europe is so important in the world.

I believe that Europe, the whole of Europe, is important for the world. Because I believe that the the world will be multipolar. It won't depend on one president. Presidents change. Administrations change. Reality is stronger than every day heads of state or governments. In this multipolar world Europe has a role to play that begins in that concept of Human rights, in the broad vision of Human rights. There it's at ease to play that role. It's stronger than every other power. And it is irreplaceable. That's why the Council of Europe is so important: because you must have a place where people try to make bridges and not to cut bridges. We have enough in the world to cut bridges. Every day we have news of walls, disruptions, unilateral decisions. This is a place of understanding. That's why Portugal is really very much committed in supporting the Council of Europe.

Mr Rebelo De Sousa, President of Portugal (translation)

So I'll be very brief.

First of all, there is no anti-Semitism in Portugal. We have a tradition today. This was not the case in the past; one of the faults, one of the mistakes in our history has been the persecution of the Jews, it has been recognised, and today we are witnessing the development and enlargement of the Jewish community in Portugal, especially in Porto, to the north, also in Lisbon, less so, and in the interior of the country, where there is a tradition. My family, on behalf of my mother, has a very strong Jewish root. There is no such thing.

When I see anti-Semitism sometimes, I have the same feeling as I do about any discrimination. Any discrimination is unacceptable and unfair and must be combated. First of all, it fights in the field of ideas. Let's start with education, by the youngest, by the children. But any discrimination! We have to do it.

Secondly, it is not the President of Portugal who is going to tell the Council of Europe what to do about a problem that is a problem at the heart of the debates in this Parliamentary Assembly. What I can say is that in all cases where Portugal or a Portuguese body has considered an act as genocide it has condemned the genocide. But here again, the problem is a cultural rather than a political one. We know that history is always written by the winners, never by the defeated. That is why history has been rewritten many times over the centuries and millennia. That being said, I consider that having a principled position on Human rights helps a house like this to deal with issues like the one you mentioned.

Finally, I would like to say this to you, the Portuguese Member of Parliament. Portugal has a tradition as a country of emigration. It is all over the world. Yesterday I had lunch with a very well-known Swedish politician, a good friend, who discovered at the end of lunch that Portugal had played a role – and is playing a role – in the world, which it did not know about. Why? Because we have Portuguese in the United States, Canada, Latin America, Australia, New Zealand, China, India, Africa, everywhere in Africa, everywhere in Europe. This makes us even more responsible in this fight for the values that are essential for the Council of Europe.

We have our faults. I recognized them as Head of state. We should do better. We're doing better now. We'll try to approve, for a change, to match your recommendations. I didn't come here to make the nationalist optimism speech. No. Not at all, since I am very against hyper-nationalism. To fight against hyper-nationalism, xenophobia and Human rights violations, we can count on Portugal. Because we are very open to understanding others, to dialogue with others. We understand dictatorships; we have had dictatorships. We understand persecutions; we have persecuted, we have been persecuted all over the world. We understand wars; we have had wars, we have fought, we fought in the Great War. Last year I was with the French president in northern France: thousands of Portuguese fought for a country they did not know, in France, that they will never know. Their families came to visit this country through this ceremony.

We are in missions of the European Union, missions of the United Nations, several, too, of the Atlantic Alliance, in several countries, with humanitarian objectives and I believe that in this Council of Europe, the Portuguese must always be present, in the committees, the subcommittees.

The North-South centre axis is essential for dialogue. Without this dialogue we will have unsuspected problems for some Europeans. We have to work on the area where we have the presidency, at the Pompidou Group: drug addiction. One thing where we have policies that are very advanced, but successfully.

In the area I know we are discussing a little: there are some who do not understand the diaspora. The diaspora are the Europeans who are everywhere in Europe; the British who are in Portugal, the French who are in Portugal, not only the Portuguese who are in France, the Europeans who are in Europe, but of course the people who are elsewhere and the others who are here. There is such a thing! There is no denying that. We cannot consider that by building walls we will stop the circulation of ideas, science, technology, finance, the economy and people. There is no such thing!

That is why I think you are right: we have a role to play and we must carry it out with even greater vigour.