THE PRESIDENT
Thank you
very much, Prime Minister, for your most interesting address. It
was a pleasure to listen to you.
Members of the Assembly have expressed a wish to put questions
to you. I remind them that questions must be limited to thirty seconds.
Colleagues should be asking questions and not making speeches.
We tried to group the questions, but there was a demand for
them to be placed in order. That means first all the groups, and
then questions according to the time when they were submitted.
A substantial number of colleagues have expressed the wish
to ask questions. To ensure that as many as possible can put their
questions, I do not propose to allow supplementary questions.
The first question is from Mr Terry Davis, from the Socialist
Group.
Mr DAVIS (United Kingdom)
On behalf
of the Socialist Group, which has often criticised Turkey in the
past, may I congratulate you and your government on the reforms
that you have introduced since the election, with the support of
the opposition? May I urge you to continue to work constructively
with the Government of Greece to encourage the people of Cyprus
to find a solution to the Cyprus problem, in the interests of all
the people of Cyprus?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
Thank you for your appreciation.
As I said in my speech, we are pushing hard to find a lasting solution.
We are very sincere. I hope that this will end in a peaceful result.
Of course, the solution must be satisfactory to both sides if it
is to be lasting.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next speaker is Mr Van der Linden from the Group of the European People’s
Party.
Mr VAN DER LINDEN (Netherlands) (interpretation)
congratulated
Mr Gül on the progress of reform.
(The speaker continued in English) I
congratulate the Prime Minister of Turkey, and also congratulate
the Council of Europe on his nomination. It will give us great confidence
for the future, and will also encourage Europe as a whole.
What does the Prime Minister think is the role of the Council
of Europe in the northern part of the region, among Turkey’s neighbours,
especially in the Caucasus?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
As you know, enlargement is what
interests the Council of Europe as well. In that respect, Turkey
has a chance of playing a positive role, as in the past we have
had good relations in the area. Many people from that area live
in Turkey, which can provide a bridge to establish good relations.
Mr EÖRSI (Hungary)
I join my colleagues
in congratulating you, Mr Prime Minister, on your very promising speech.
I understand that one of the biggest challenges facing Turkey is
that of European Union membership and I am sure that you know that
our Liberal colleagues in the European Parliament fully support
Turkey’s starting accession talks. What can the Liberals in the
Hemicycle do to help you achieve your goals?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
Thank you. My government understands
that we have to do our homework to prepare Turkey for full membership.
That is why, when I became Prime Minister, we produced reform packages
and sent them to parliament. As I have said, two reform packages
were passed in parliament and I am very pleased to say that the
government and the opposition were united in pushing them through.
It will be enough for you to appreciate what we have done.
Mr ATKINSON (United Kingdom)
May I
say what a pleasure it is to see that a former member of the Group of
the European People’s Party is the Prime Minister of his country?
Do you agree that, following the Israeli elections this week, a
new peace process in the Middle East is overdue? As Turkey is the
only Nato country with influence on both sides, do you have any
new initiatives to propose?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
As Mr Atkinson has said, we have
good relations with both sides and that provides us with an opportunity.
My government’s programme made it clear that we are ready to support
and to contribute to the peace process. I hope that we will have
an opportunity after the elections and Turkey will work hard to
play its part.
Mr LAAKSO (Finland)
Allow me to say
that, when we first heard about your victory, we felt that it was
also a victory for the Council of Europe. That is important. We
can see that there is a new page in the relationship between the
Council of Europe and Turkey.
May I ask about the further reform of the Turkish Constitution,
in which there are still remnants of military rule? What are you
going to do to abolish those remnants?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
As I have said, we are reformists,
so our aim is to upgrade Turkish democracy so that it meets the
standards of the Council of Europe. We have therefore amended the constitution
and changed the nature of the National Security Council. That is,
of course, part of a process that I think will continue.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next speaker would have been Mr Kanelli from Greece but his
delegation did not nominate him, so I cannot give him the opportunity
to ask a question. I call Mrs Durrieu of France.
Mrs DURRIEU (France) (translation)
Mr Prime Minister,
please accept my congratulations on behalf of the French delegation
as a whole. Turkey is a secular state. The essence of secularity
is absolute respect for freedom of conscience and worship and for
all religious and philosophical ideas. Do you consider yourself
able to reaffirm the secularity of the Turkish state? Do you think
this reaffirmed secularity constitutes a strong position in favour of
your country’s admission to the European Union?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
There is no doubt that Turkey is
a secular country. We are also unique in the region in the respect
that we are the only Muslim country that is a candidate for membership
of the European Union. We are a good example and are trying to show
the world that a country with a Muslim identity can be a transparent
democracy and comfortable with the modern world. Secularism forms
part of that.
Mr KONTOGIANNOPOULOS (Greece) (interpretation)
asked to what
extent the reform timetable had been drawn up to meet the criteria
for accession.
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
In fact, if you compare Turkey with
the other candidate countries, you will see that Turkey fully meets
the Copenhagen criteria. Before the end of 2004, our aim is to start negotiations.
Of course, that will involve progress reports in 2003 and we want
to receive good reports. That is why we are pushing the reform package
through parliament. We are optimistic. We have the political will
and determination to prepare Turkey for full membership. As I have
said, we are doing our homework and I hope that the European Union
will appreciate that.
Mr OLIYNYK (Ukraine) (interpretation)
asked whether
Iraq had given the United States the slightest grounds to allow
them to carry out aggression.
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
This crisis is very serious and
the next two weeks will be crucial. We are part of the region and
know it better than many others. That is why we are trying to exhaust
all possibilities before a war takes place. We made a strong call
to Iraq and the Iraqi leadership should understand it. In a closed
regime, the leaders sometimes do not know what is going on. That
is why I sent a minister to Iraq with a letter from me. We made
everything clear and put it in the open. I hope that, this time,
the Iraqi leadership will realise what is happening so that we can
avoid a war.
Mr LLOYD (United Kingdom)
Mr Prime
Minister, please accept the congratulations of the British delegation. Turkey
knows the enormous costs of war and its consequences as a result
of the Gulf war. In that context, are you of the view that deterrence
and containment would be a better way to restrain Iraq than military adventurism?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
I have visited leaders in the region,
and we have discussed this issue together. There is still time,
although it is running out, to avoid war, and we should work hard
to achieve that end. If there is a war, the consequences will be
bad for the region. It is a Pandora’s box. Iraq is like a miniature
Middle East: it represents all the ethnic and religious differences
– Arabs, Kurds, Turks, Sunni and Shia Muslims and Christians. It
will be very difficult to deal with all of them. The economic burden
of a war would be very heavy. I am afraid that there will be a revival
of nationalism. We worry that Iraq may turn into another Lebanon.
There is also the humanitarian consequences. During the first
Gulf war, in one night 500 000 Iraqi refugees came into Turkey,
and we had to receive them. Children, women and elderly people came
across the border. We do not want the same situation, which is why
we must try to find a non-violent solution.
Mr KIRILOV (Bulgaria)
Turkey’s role
as a neighbour of Iraq is very important. Do you think that the
inspectors are doing a useful job under present circumstances? Do
you think that hostilities should start without a new United Nations
Security Council resolution?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
In a few hours, we will know the
result of the experts’ report. We hope that the report will be clear
enough. International legitimacy is very important. For that reason,
I think that a second United Nations resolution is needed, at least
to convince the people. Turkey lays great store on international
legitimacy.
Mr CHRISTODOULIDES (Cyprus)
Mr Gül, you just
said that you were for a just, viable and lasting solution in Cyprus.
I fully agree with that. Will you try to persuade the leader of
the Turkish-Cypriot community, Mr Denktash, to negotiate, on the
basis of the Annan plan, with the representatives of the Greek-Cypriot community
to achieve such a solution?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
That is why the negotiations are
going on. The position of my government is that no solution is not
a solution. There is a perception that the Turks prefer no solution.
That is not correct. My government will push for a solution. However,
if the solution is not satisfactory to both sides, it will not be
a lasting one. We want people to live in a peaceful atmosphere.
We all know what happened in the past, and we do not want to repeat
that. We do not want to have tragedies similar to those at the beginning
of the 1970s. That is the worry, but I think there is a solution.
We are all trying to join the European Union. If we were in the
same home together, there would be no more problems.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
Before giving the floor to the next speaker, I must announce that
we made a mistake. When I said that Mr Kanelli was not duly substituted,
it was correct, but it was incorrect to say that Mr Kanelli had
asked to take the floor. The handwriting was a little illegible,
and we could not read it. It was not Mr Kanelli, but Mrs Katseli
who asked to take the floor. After the next speaker, I shall give
her the floor. The next speaker is Mr Pourgourides.
Mr POURGOURIDES (Cyprus)
As a Greek Cypriot,
may I wish you from the bottom of my heart every success in your
efforts to make Turkey what you want to make it? In your speech,
you referred to your commitment to implementing the outstanding
judgments of the European Court of Human Rights. Does that commitment
include the well-known case of Loizidou against Turkey, which concerns
the payment of just compensation for being unable to use her property
in the occupied part of Cyprus?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
We are negotiating to find a solution,
and we must concentrate on that. When we reach a solution, all such
problems will be resolved. I shall, however, be able to give you
a written response.
THE PRESIDENT
Thank you.
The next speaker is Mrs Katseli, and I again beg her pardon for
the mistake.
Mrs KATSELI (Greece) (translation)
Your Excellency,
the European Union and the Council of Europe view the recent constitutional
and legislative reform in Turkey as a step in the desired direction.
They have nevertheless emphasised that the reform should be implemented
as speedily as possible. Other measures, administrative as well
as legislative, are required.
The new provisions also concern the religious establishments,
including those of the Greek minority. However, these provisions
are not yet being applied.
Mr Prime Minister, does your government intend to adopt appropriate
measures to remedy this state of affairs, while bearing in mind
the significant interest which the question of the religious establishments
holds for the Council of Europe?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
Passing laws is very important,
but their implementation is essential. We are aware of that, and
my government is determined to do that. Soon, you will see that
there will be no problem in the implementation of these laws.
Mr McNAMARA (United Kingdom)
Thank
you, Mr President. May I say, Prime Minister, that in many ways
it has been a breath of fresh air to hear of the new steps that
Turkey is taking? I believe that they are welcomed not only in the
Assembly but throughout the world. Is it your intention to see that
all the decisions of the European Court of Human Rights are fully
implemented by Turkey before you set about your negotiations to join
the European Union?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
I have already mentioned in my speech
that we have made many changes and that we have amended the constitution.
We have passed new legislation so I do not think that there is a
problem. Also I said sincerely that we were going to implement the
decisions of the Court and that is why retrial rights were given
to the people.
Ms ISOHOOKANA-ASUNMAA (Finland)
Prime Minister,
in view of tomorrow’s debate on freedom of expression of the media
in Europe, what further concrete measures does your government plan
to take to bring Turkish legislation and practice into line with
European standards and, in particular, with the case-law of the European
Court of Human Rights on freedom of expression?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
We believe that the expression of
opinions is an essential part of fundamental rights, so if there
is no violence behind it, any opinion should be free. Since we changed
the laws and the constitution, there is no more discrimination.
Mr JURGENS (Netherlands)
I very much
welcome the decision on retrial in relation to cases that have been tried
in the European Court of Human Rights, but, more importantly, when
will the legislation change? Mr Gül’s party was banned while he
was a member of this Assembly. I remember a discussion about that.
The DEP party was banned in Turkey and four members of parliament
have been in prison for nine years and are still there. Will the
provisions be changed in Turkish law so that the case of Leila Zana
could not occur again?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
In fact, we have already changed
the legislation and we have passed a law which gives the right to
retrial, so those former deputies have the right to go to court
again.
Mrs VERMOT-MANGOLD (Switzerland) (interpretation)
raised the
issue of the Kurds and asked how Turkey would try to resolve issues
of minority rights.
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
Mr GÜL. – Of course, the Kurds are
our citizens so there is no discrimination between Turks and Kurds
in Turkey. Turkish citizenship is essential for us, but I am sure
that you will accept that there was terrorist activity in Turkey.
We cannot ignore that. Because of that, some cases have been brought
to court and some of those involved are in prison. In my speech,
I also informed you that the emergency administration, which continued
for almost thirty years, was lifted in the first week of my government.
We now need peace, and the happiness of Turkish citizens is very
important for us.
Mr GROSS (Switzerland)
Prime Minister,
I have a delicate question for you and I have the courage to ask
it only because you know that I am supportive and I know that you
are open and that we worked together very well. Perhaps you know
that I have to make a report for the Political Affairs Committee
on successful examples of autonomous regions. Would you allow me
to come to Turkey to see whether it would fit in with your interest in
integrating your country to give autonomy to the Kurdish part, in
which the Kurdish cultural people are in a majority?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
As Mr Gross said, we used to sit
next to each other, and he is a good friend. Our constitution does
not discriminate between our citizens. Turkish citizenship is essential
for us. In Parliament, we do not look at the origin of the people,
and that applies also in the administration. In the government,
there are sometimes prime ministers, speakers of the parliament
or presidents. We have had some problems in the past, and unfortunately
we suffered because of the terrorist activity. But anyway, you are welcome
to travel to my country and to see the region. I am sure that you
will see the reality better when you go there.
Mr ROCHEBLOINE (France) (translation)
The new Turkish
Government, whose election the commentators describe as the expression
of a profound aspiration to renewal among the population, has displayed
the will to pursue a bold and innovative policy that will enable
Turkey to occupy its full political position in Europe’s community
of nations. This ambition nonetheless entails, as was the case for
other countries, a clarification of its past, especially its relations
with Armenia and the world’s Armenian communities. It therefore
presupposes official acknowledgement of the historical record concerning
the annihilation of the Armenian population through genocide. Is
Turkey finally prepared today to own up to its past?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
You could approach this issue from
a different point. At that time, there was a war and there was no
attempt by the Turks to massacre the people. It is now time to consolidate our
relations, and that is why Turkey is helping Armenia and why there
are frequent flights from Istanbul to Yerevan. That is also why
Turkish business people are helping there. I also think that Armenia
should have good relations with its border countries. It has to
recognise the border at least. We are helping them. We will continue.
There is no need to go back any more. Let us look at the future
for better relations.
Mr GUBERT (Italy) (translation)
Prime Minister,
Turkey’s request for membership of the European Union, as I’m sure
you are aware, has prompted debate on the boundaries of the European
Union in the east and in areas bordering Turkey. In your opinion,
should we be speaking of boundaries or do you believe the European
Union can also encompass regions where the religion, history, traditions
and ethnic make-up have something in common with those of present-day
Turkish society?
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
Of course, if you decide on one
thing, you will have to consider whether its role will be just continental
or global. Will it play a strategic role in world affairs? I think
that the new Europe should play a strategic role in global affairs.
Turkey will not be a burden on the European Union. It will be an
asset. It will be a political decision of the European leaders.
It is a win-win situation. If we are a member of the European
Union, we will win. At the same time we believe that the European
Union will win too.
Mr PAVLIDIS (Greece) (interpretation)
welcomed the Prime
Minister of Turkey to the Council of Europe. He recognised the efforts
of the Turkish Government to initiate reform. He asked the Prime
Minister of Turkey what plans he had for addressing the issue of
immigrants originating from Turkey, passing through Greece, and
en route to Europe.
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
Mr GÜL. – It is clear that the immigrants
do not come from Turkey. They come from other parts of the world.
Unfortunately, Turkey is being used. We have good cooperation to
prevent and to stop the movements.
Mr JANSSEN VAN RAAIJ (Netherlands)
I was a member
of the parliament of the European Union for twenty years and have
always supported Turkey becoming a member. Those who find the situation
difficult because a large part of your country is outside Europe
can take the example of Denmark. When it became a member of the
European Union, the biggest part of that kingdom, Greenland, belonged
to the American continent. That is a very good argument in Turkey’s
favour.
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
Thank you very much.
Mr O’HARA (United Kingdom)
Are you
satisfied that sufficient attention is being given to the cultural
and natural heritage in the context of the major development project
for south-east Anatolia, in particular the proposal to construct
a dam at Ilisu on the River Tigris? You will be aware that Balfour
Beatty withdrew from the project because of confusion over management
control and strategy over the resettlement of people whose land
is flooded, the control of and effect on waters upstream and downstream,
and the archaeological remains at Hasankeyf.
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
That is a great heritage site for
us. We are thinking about that project again. We want to build the
dam but at the same time we want to protect the heritage. I think
there is a way to do that. There is a new project. We are trying
to solve the problem.
Mr BERISHA (Albania)
I congratulate
the Prime Minister on his victory and I am deeply convinced that
his government will show to the world how compatible Islam is with
secularism, free elections and the rule of law. That is a great
contribution.
Do the Prime Minister and the Turkish Government intend to
modify the electoral threshold which stands today at 10%? The current
system, in my opinion, detracts from the representation of the electorate
in parliament.
Mr Gül, Prime Minister of Turkey
That is a good question but the
electoral law was not made by us. In a way it is designed to stop
us. The response of the Turkish people was different.
You are right. We are studying political-party law and electoral
law. I am sure that, together with the opposition, we will have
better parliamentary representation.
THE PRESIDENT
That brings
an end to the questions. Mr Prime Minister, I thank you most warmly
on behalf of the Assembly for your address and your remarks. Thank
you very much for coming here. It was nice to see a friend of the
Assembly and the Prime Minister of a member of the Council of Europe.