Parliamentary Assembly

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

You have asked a lot of questions, so I will need time to give my real opinion. First, the real solution for Bosnia is a fine balance between ethnic and civic approaches. We cannot have a single, simple solution. The answer lies somewhere in between. If you are a member of the smallest ethnic group, you will fear for your identity, which is the case in Bosnia – Bosnians among the Serb majority or Serbs among the Bosnian majority. We have to find solutions in order to preserve identity and no one will accept separation. The real trick is somewhere in between. We need a fair solution based on compromise that will eliminate all fears. I honestly believe that we can find such a solution.

The Dayton Agreement gave us a framework and politicians who are ready to make a compromise will always find a solution – if they want to. If they do not want to, a most beautiful piece of paper with “constitution” as its title is not a solution. Nobody will implement an idealistic piece of paper. The real trick for Bosnia is to be ready for the compromise, to understand the other side and its fears, to find a normal, realistic solution and to deal with matters on which we can agree and not disagree. Previous politicians took tough positions to get elected, so we also have to change ourselves. I believe that that is possible, but we cannot expect an idealistic political system in Bosnia these days. I believe in it, but it will require new generations that are not so close to the war and to the current situation. I am against a big bang approach as it would put us back in a situation with three different visions of the same country. I do not want that. I want to deal with issues on which we can agree in order to improve the lives of all citizens in Bosnia.

There was no need to ask your second question, because I was in Srebrenica 10 years ago when I was minister of foreign affairs. We will see what will happen this time because, as you know, there is a crisis. Due to the arrest of Mr Oric, it is even possible that there will be no event. I did my duty 10 years ago when it was more difficult, but I have always said that such events must be about real respect for the victims and not about politics. They have been misused by all sides from time to time. Once we really and honestly go there in order to pay respect to the innocent victims, the event may be able to unite us. If it is politicised, as it is currently, it will be just a mechanism for further division. I am against that and will never take part in such activities. Mr Vucic is a serious politician and does not need my advice about what to do.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

It is difficult for me to give advice, but based on our experience I would say do not postpone finding a solution, because sometimes when you do that, the solution will never come. Also, the solution is to be found somewhere in between people’s positions – nobody will be completely happy and nobody will be completely unhappy. In conflicts, only these solutions can work, and it is important that there is a beginning point. Later there will be some further reforms and new solutions will be found, but if the search for a solution is postponed it can be very difficult to find one, and it might take decades. So, get involved, try to understand all sides, and find a solution that is in between. Our experience is that that can work. We are not an ideal society, but it is working and the people live more or less normally now. We need more jobs, but there was a framework which has given us a chance.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

Last year, Bosnia was faced with huge protests and for the first time since the war the reason was not political or ethnic, but economic. They were really quite serious protests for the first time, and there are both positive and negative sides to that. There is pressure on all levels of the government to deliver on the economy, to create jobs and to change the focus from ethnic division to economic development. That was an extremely important message. People are tired of the old subjects. They desperately need something new and positive in their daily life. They need better schools and more jobs, and they do not want to deal so much with the issues of the past 25 years. This is the main message of that movement, and now all the government are thinking seriously about these things. What has happened at the DITA factory is part of all this. After years, that big factory has started up its production again.

Because of these protests, economic reform is on the agenda. In Bosnia, to agree about something is not so easy, but after the last elections we agreed on the common statement of the presidency which was approved by all parliamentary party leaders and was unanimously adopted in parliament, and we will, I hope, agree next week about the reform agenda. So there will have been two serious agreements in eight months. That is a positive sign, and it is a result of the pressure of the citizens of Bosnia on the political elite to change the subjects, and to deal not so much with the different constitutional discussions and to focus more on real-life problems – the economy, the lack of jobs, the fact that the younger generation leave. The country will lose that generation very soon if we continue with the same approach. So there is new hope, and we must deliver on that. That is the best possible support we can give this movement.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

In the last 20 years, the census was always a very sensitive issue, in my opinion without any specific reason. The results of the census will not have any influence on the Bosnian Constitution. We have three members of the presidency regardless of the census numbers. We have a Council of Ministers which is composed with equal parity regardless of the census. The numbers of MPs from the different entities is not linked to the census, either. So the census does not have a real political influence, but for local politicians it is good to be tough and to fight for their point of view and their interests, because if they represent a majority, they are the key. That is the logic.

The real reason why this has still not been published is simple: how do we count the citizens who have been out of Bosnia for more than six months? Are they citizens or not? That is the main issue now. As always, all sides staked out their position in their corner and now it is difficult to escape from those corners, but I hope we will soon overcome that.

It is all very simple and some first results have already been published. We know roughly what the figures are. There is no big change and I do not understand why there is any dispute, because, as I said, the census will not have any influence on the governmental structure in Bosnia and Herzegovina. So for me this is purely a technical issue for technicians, not politicians. I hope that will be the case, and until now we have not had politicians involved in that discussion.

There is some sort of promise that we can expect the results by the end of this year. I hope that will be the case, especially as representatives of the European statistics institutions are very much involved in this in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

The turnout in the last Bosnian elections was around 54%, so it is not so small compared with other European countries. Part of the reason is that we compare the number of voters to the number of IDs that we have issued. Some Bosnians outside the country have IDs, but they are employed in other countries, so they will not vote. They have the right to vote because they have IDs, but they are not there because they live in another country. Because of that, the turnout looks lower than it is in reality.

Nevertheless, I agree with your main message that they still do not believe that their vote counts. A lot of people say that everything will remain the same, whether or not they vote. Bosnia is still not really a democratic society, and that is linked to the question of individuals. We have had the individual right to vote only for the past 20 years – just a few elections. There is still the influence of the communist times, when, whether or not people were voting or thinking, everything was the same. We have to convince the people that the institutions are important, because there is still a mentality that believes that the politicians are more important than the institutions.

We need huge reform, and we need the time for that, but I am quite optimistic, because the situation is improving every year. Even the fact that I won after being in opposition for 10 years is, if I may say so, a positive sign. Bosnian society is slowly becoming more politically mature, but we need at least a few more elections before the people understand that this is really important. I hope that I will do my best in that direction.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

Whether or not we like the decisions, we have to implement them. That has to be a basic rule. Bosnia and Herzegovina has received some decisions that even I do not like, but if we break the rule, there is no sense in this institution existing. If some countries can say no, what is the basis for the existence of the Council of Europe? My position, therefore, is that we have to follow the rule.

I had to implement some decisions in Bosnia and Herzegovina that were not acceptable to me at the time, but it is simply the rule, and we have to stick to it, without exceptions. The Sejdic and Finci case was one of the most important decisions for us, and it was painful, difficult, sensitive and very challenging for us politicians. Perhaps some of us who implement that judgment will not be re-elected, but we have to do it because it is the basic rule of this institution. We simply have to do our best in that respect.

I ask all parliamentarians to go home and ask the authorities in your countries to implement all the decisions. No one else can send that message in the countries that have not so far implemented the Court’s decisions.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

For us, this is important for two reasons. The precondition for political stability in Bosnia and Herzegovina is good relations between the different religious communities. I must say that we have had a positive development there, which was perhaps most visible when the Pope visited Sarajevo. His visit was welcomed by the leaders of all four main religious communities in Sarajevo. Since we have those religions across Europe, we believe that such good relations are a precondition for the political stability of Europe. We have problems with the radicalisation of different religious communities, which we have to prevent. The best way to do so is to discuss it and understand the other side. That is why we decided to hold a conference in Sarajevo to emphasise the need for better understanding as a precondition for political stability not only in Europe but for us. So we were a little selfish in having that priority.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

Let me start with the second question on the Naser Oric case. For one community, Oric is a hero; for another community, he committed a war crime. How can we have a common approach? It is very difficult. Oric was arrested in Switzerland. I do not think that any of us can influence the Swiss judiciary. It is independent, and it will make a decision based on the arguments. Who can influence it? I think this is an artificially created problem. If we influenced the judiciary in any case involving individuals from all sides, we would never deliver anybody. Can you imagine how many cases we would have in the future?

I have not commented on this case during the past 20 years because I really believe that if politicians start to make such comments, it will be the end. This is purely a judicial matter that has to be solved by Bosnia and Herzegovina’s Minister of Justice, the Swiss Minister of Justice and the Serbian Minister of Justice. For politicians, the best way to create an atmosphere is to say, “I am a tough defender of my people.” Because of such a position, we cancelled the visit of the Serbian President to Bosnia and Herzegovina. For me, it is always better to speak directly about the problems, not to take such steps. Doing so might be welcomed by your people, Ms Mulic, but it would create a very negative atmosphere in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

I think it is best not to say what I think about Milorad Dodik given my position. I have to say that in Bosnia and Herzegovina, we still have three different views on its future. If it is the view from Sarajevo, it is Bosnia without the entities. If it is the view from Banja Luka and the Serbs, it is an independent Republika Srpska. If it is the view from the Bosnian Croats, it is perhaps a third entity. If you ask the people separately, those will be their answers. Such answers are not realistic – they would create a war again – so we have to find a compromise. We need to speak not about that, but about the economy: can we export milk to the European Union or not, how can we create better perceptions of the country and how can we encourage investment?

I will never be put in the position of having what we could call old-time discussions about who is for this and who is for that. I will always try to find a solution in between. I will protect my people, but I will never attack the other ethnic groups. We have that in common – I cannot protect the identity of my people by not co-operating with the others – and this is the solution. Nobody can expect me not to be a Serb, because I am a Serb, but I think that we can find a compromise. If we are to think about the future and have a normal life, we must not make ourselves so important that everything has to depend on us.

You can see in my statements the various influences of this Assembly, and that I am trying to be quite strict in my answers.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

We are trying to be a friend of both Azerbaijan and Armenia. We have really good relations with both countries. I was recently in Baku for the opening ceremony of the European Games. I have to say that quite a few positive projects are supported by Azerbaijan. In particular, the investment to create at the inter-entity border line a company that will employ people from all three ethnic groups is quite a positive sign. At the same time, we have quite good relations with Armenia, which we are trying to develop even more.

My real opinion is that we may be able to help. Small countries faced with a conflict are not always strong enough to deliver a solution, but since we do not have any hidden agenda, perhaps sharing our experience will help them to find a solution. However, the final implementation of such a solution is, in the end, for the two countries. As long as there is no agreement between these countries, nobody else can impose a solution, and especially not Bosnia and Herzegovina, which is a relatively small country and is not that influential. We will continue to develop good relations with them and to do our best to find a solution, because that is in the best interests of us all, but especially of the citizens of these two countries.

Mr Ivanić, President of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina

You have heard my general opinion and general strategy on the Sejdic and Finci case. I am more optimistic that we will implement the decision, because there is a price: Bosnia’s status as a candidate country. That condition did not exist before.

Yes, we do have some other problems on minority rights and human rights generally. For example, how can it be that hundreds of Serb students cannot learn in the Serbian language in their communities in the federation, and, vice versa, some Bosnian students cannot go to school and learn their language? Some will say that that is because of money and lack of resources, which is the case, and some will say that it is a political decision, but the issue exists, and we still have to solve it.

I agree that media freedom is not very good in Bosnia, but that is a common responsibility. The managers of all public services are appointed with the agreement of the international representatives in Bosnia. At the time, that was seen as positive and democratic. The managers had some sort of political approval from the High Representative and the team there. Also, politicians in Bosnia simply use the media as a tool to be re-elected. I am against that approach, but that is the reality.

For the first time, we have invited the OSCE representative on media freedom to visit. She is from Bosnia, and the only country where she was not involved was Bosnia. It is only thanks to the new government that she has been invited. That is part of the solution. It is not perfect, but we have an interest in supporting that work and continuing with it, because it is in our best interest to have human rights at the highest possible level. I will do my best in that. Young people in the public gallery and in Bosnia have to have the chance to live in a normal society. I cannot guarantee the best situation, but I can guarantee that I will do my best.